Forza Motorsport 3 : Thread

Since 7533 Days

Posted by INDIGO

No shit. Are you talking about the environments or the cars?

Why would I mention pre-baked and hdr lighting for the cars specifically, that doesn't even make any sense considering the lighting should affect everything in the environment...

Posted by vspectra06

Here's a list of rumors by Tofu R.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1612573...

Looks like this guy might have actually worked at Turn10.

http://www.gtxf.net/showthread.php?t=15307

In reply to

Acert93

Since 6797 Days

Posted by GriftGFX

What has convinced you that it isn't? I think it's sorta hard to tell from what little we've seen thus far, one way or another. I'll let Acert come in here and school us all.

So far everything shown indicates vspectra is correct (baked shadows and lighting for the world, dynamic shadows for the cars; some sort of HDR technique other than FP16). If there were dynamic lights and shadows you could have time of day change. I don't know how from the videos someone could argue there is dynamic lights/shadows because you don't see the sun move. HDR effects are compatible with baked lighting. The only thing dynamic is pretty much the cars and some props (as should be really). And as vspector noted, the shadowing on the world geometry, for example, looks like traditional prebaked. From a practical standpoint imagine trying to do dynamic lights on the grand stands with 100,000 seats ... yeah. Baked shadows and lighting is cheaper, faster, and better looking. And if your geometry is pretty stable there is no reason to do dynamic lights and shadows for static objects unless you really, really want time of day change.

But there is always a potential for compromises (e.g. a number of games can do their precomputed lights and shadows within a number of seconds/minutes, so they could do "dynamic" time of day changes while maintaining a baked general solution, but that would eat up memory footprint.

Btw, I have seen very little realtime gameplay in 720, but can anyone note road texture quality (i.e. are they applying some filtering this go around?)

In reply to

[quote=GriftGFX]What has convinced you that it isn't? I think it's sorta hard to tell from what little we've seen thus far, one way or another. I'll let Acert come in here and school us all.[/quote]

So far everything shown indicates vspectra is correct (baked shadows and lighting for the world, dynamic shadows for the cars; some sort of HDR technique other than FP16). If there were dynamic lights and shadows you could have time of day change. I don't know how from the videos someone could argue there is dynamic lights/shadows because you don't see the sun move. HDR effects are compatible with baked lighting. The only thing dynamic is pretty much the cars and some props (as should be really). And as vspector noted, the shadowing on the world geometry, for example, looks like traditional prebaked. From a practical standpoint imagine trying to do dynamic lights on the grand stands with 100,000 seats ... yeah. Baked shadows and lighting is cheaper, faster, and better looking. And if your geometry is pretty stable there is no reason to do dynamic lights and shadows for static objects unless you really, really want time of day change.

But there is always a potential for compromises (e.g. a number of games can do their precomputed lights and shadows within a number of seconds/minutes, so they could do "dynamic" time of day changes while maintaining a baked general solution, but that would eat up memory footprint.

Btw, I have seen very little realtime gameplay in 720, but can anyone note road texture quality (i.e. are they applying some filtering this go around?)

Pwn'd by Phaethon360.

Optimusv2

Since 6719 Days

Road textures are unbelieavable. Bout time you showed up Acert!

According to that guy, which obviously seems to he knew much about the game, day and night cycles were taken out to make release date of October.

In reply to

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of the greatest books ever.

pssh! more like electronic g

vspectra06

Since 7533 Days

Car selection screen from the e3 demo.

http://www.gametrailers.com/user-movie/forza-3-e3-...

370z camera pan in menu

http://www.gametrailers.com/user-movie/forza-3-nis...

In reply to

LEBATO

Since 6949 Days

Posted by Optimusv2

Road textures are unbelieavable. Bout time you showed up Acert!

That's what Greenawalt says, but we need to see 720p gameplay.

Now.......

http://images.gamersyde.com/gallery/public/10651/1...

In reply to

Mods, stop changing my SIG! I'm going to end up banning you!

Milhouse

Since 6231 Days

Posted by vspectra06

The car lighting looks better than before, but you don't need a dynamic light source to do good reflections and car lighting. See GT5p.

Well, even Forza 2 provides car reflections that are miles ahead of GT5p. So, i really wouldn't say that GT5p provides good reflections.

In reply to

LEBATO

Since 6949 Days

Posted by Milhouse

Well, even Forza 2 provides car reflections that are miles ahead of GT5p. So, i really wouldn't say that GT5p provides good reflections.

NO

In reply to

Mods, stop changing my SIG! I'm going to end up banning you!

LEBATO

Since 6949 Days

In reply to

Mods, stop changing my SIG! I'm going to end up banning you!

LEBATO

Since 6949 Days

Forza will ship in two discs.

http://www.joystiq.com/2009/06/04/forza-motorsport...

Uh, let's stop the bad news there ok?

In reply to

Mods, stop changing my SIG! I'm going to end up banning you!

GriftGFX

Since 6827 Days

I don't see what the big deal is.. especially considering they say that you can install the data from the second disc. There was a day when games came on multiple CD's (console games, even).. and no one complained.

In reply to

Tomarru

Since 5899 Days

Man, that comparison screen is awesome, so much added detail all over the place. 2 Discs doesnt bother me, both will be installed anyway if i get it.
This is one of the reasons i see the next MS console being forced early, dvd is coming to the end of its life, games are starting to be produced a bit more regularly that require multiple discs (f3, FF13, most other jrpg's) and it's being hard pressed to fit the same content from the PS3 onto the 360.

In reply to

Jin187

Since 6571 Days

GT2 came on two discs, its not bad news at all.

Posted by LEBATO

NO

YES

In reply to

Tomarru

Since 5899 Days

I thought GT5p still used cube map reflections, i don't have the retail game, but i didnt see anything to suggest better reflections than GTHD which definately had basic cube map reflections (could see when it switched between maps while driving and reflected random stuff around it at random times).

In reply to

newbielives

Since 6765 Days

hmmm I wonder WTF Forza3 is using if they are not using cubemap render targets. It must be Magic

Posted by Tomarru

I thought GT5p still used cube map reflections, i don't have the retail game, but i didnt see anything to suggest better reflections than GTHD which definately had basic cube map reflections (could see when it switched between maps while driving and reflected random stuff around it at random times).

In reply to

Tomarru

Since 5899 Days

Im sure theyre using the same thing, but they look to be of a higher density and higher resolution, F2 didnt have the same overlapping and random reflections as i have seen in GtHD which seem to be completely static, they reminded me so much of the ones in HL2, particularly in scoped weapons, when they werent scoped they showed some random pre computer "reflection" in the glass centrepiece.

In reply to

deftangel

Since 6695 Days

at that comparison shot Lebato posted...what's the graphics opinion on this? I've not paid attention but that's quite dramatic to me...

Posted by GriftGFX

I don't see what the big deal is.. especially considering they say that you can install the data from the second disc. There was a day when games came on multiple CD's (console games, even).. and no one complained.

It's great ammunition for those biased in the sufficient direction. The same people will forget of course that if GT:5 requires a PS3 install that's effectively the same thing :/

I think it does show that DVD is starting to show it's limitations and there are legitimate reasons where more space maybe required. That's not to say 360 owners are losing out in any way though.

In reply to

XBL/PSN: deftangel. Views are my own and not representative of my employers. Boulets aren't the end of the world, you will get over them! Reading and constructive discussion classes are available, enquire via PM :)

Tomarru

Since 5899 Days

Posted by deftangel

I think it does show that DVD is starting to show it's limitations and there are legitimate reasons where more space maybe required. That's not to say 360 owners are losing out in any way though.

They aint losing out at the minute, but i can see going forward from this point it will become more of an issue, especially as MS takes a cut per disc rather than per game. You can see third parties removing content just to save themselves money, even addon content like behind the scenes videos etc. Installs are ok for the most of us, as you said, the PS3 has mandatory installs with pretty much all new games, the thing is, the PS3 always has a hard drive (even if it fills insanely quick and is forcing more and more people to upgrade) but not all 360's have that luxury, and with MS sticking the arm in not all will welcome the fact they need to buy a hard drive.

In reply to

Optimusv2

Since 6719 Days

Yea, quite an amazing jump from Forza 2. I'm actually happy they are putting Forza 3 on 2 discs. Don't hold back on anything :)

In reply to

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of the greatest books ever.

pssh! more like electronic g

Viginti_Tres

Since 6329 Days

Aye, I see it the same way Optimus. I'd rather have more discs than a cut out content that I can pay for later via DLC. At least this shows that Turn10 is ambitious in competing with GT5 and in return shows how important it is to have a potent rival. Wouldn't there be GT5 I doubt we'd get a second disk.

In reply to

Optimusv2

Since 6719 Days

Posted by Viginti_Tres

Aye, I see it the same way Optimus. I'd rather have more discs than a cut out content that I can pay for later via DLC. At least this shows that Turn10 is ambitious in competing with GT5 and in return shows how important it is to have a potent rival. Wouldn't there be GT5 I doubt we'd get a second disk.

Yea, and they probably wouldn't have upped the graphics to the level they have because there probably wouldn't feel there was a need to compete with anything visually.

In reply to

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of the greatest books ever.

pssh! more like electronic g

Milhouse

Since 6231 Days

Posted by LEBATO

NO

WRONG!

Forza 2 reflections provides much much more details than GT5P reflections. You can even notice the color of environment assets (depending on car paint).

In reply to

Jin187

Since 6571 Days

Posted by Tomarru

Im sure theyre using the same thing, but they look to be of a higher density and higher resolution, F2 didnt have the same overlapping and random reflections as i have seen in GtHD which seem to be completely static, they reminded me so much of the ones in HL2, particularly in scoped weapons, when they werent scoped they showed some random pre computer "reflection" in the glass centrepiece.

Forza 2 had genuine reflections which reflected pretty much the whole game world excluding other cars. Forza 3 is the same but looks to be much improved. GT5p also reflects the world but the reflections are nowhere near as detailed although things may change on GT5.

Forza 2 Reflections...

http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/...

http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/...

http://l.yimg.com/jh/content/p/2/1196722/forza-mot...

http://l.yimg.com/jh/content/p/4/1196710/forza-mot...

GT5p Reflections...

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.ps3fanboy.com/media/200...

http://www.greatwallofgaming.com/wp-content/upload...

In reply to

[quote=Tomarru]Im sure theyre using the same thing, but they look to be of a higher density and higher resolution, F2 didnt have the same overlapping and random reflections as i have seen in GtHD which seem to be completely static, they reminded me so much of the ones in HL2, particularly in scoped weapons, when they werent scoped they showed some random pre computer "reflection" in the glass centrepiece.[/quote]

Forza 2 had genuine reflections which reflected pretty much the whole game world excluding other cars. Forza 3 is the same but looks to be much improved. GT5p also reflects the world but the reflections are nowhere near as detailed although things may change on GT5.

Forza 2 Reflections...

http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/766/766440/forza-motorsport-2-20070221014425587.jpg

http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/766/766440/forza-motorsport-2-20070221014428633.jpg

http://l.yimg.com/jh/content/p/2/1196722/forza-motorsport-2-20080317010959549_screen001.jpg

http://l.yimg.com/jh/content/p/4/1196710/forza-motorsport-2-20080317011028063_screen001.jpg

GT5p Reflections...

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.ps3fanboy.com/media/2007/12/gt_1080_5.jpg

http://www.greatwallofgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/gt5-prologue-5.jpg

Jin187

Since 6571 Days

http://www.pspsps.tv/gt5.jpg

In reply to

vspectra06

Since 7533 Days

The reflection mapping in forza 2 looked completely unrealistic though. Real cars aren't always completely reflective depending on where the sun is and at what angle you're viewing them. For some reason Forza 2's cars were ALWAYS reflecting something, and the overdone HDR made the rooftops completely white on certain tracks.

GT5 still has more realistic looking reflections and lighting.

http://www.everybodysucksbutus.com/wp-content/uplo...

In reply to

Milhouse

Since 6231 Days

Posted by vspectra06

Real cars aren't always completely reflective either depending on where the sun is and at what angle you're viewing them. For some reason Forza 2's cars were ALWAYS reflecting something, and the overdone HDR made the rooftops completely white on certain tracks.

WRONG! Have you ever played Forza 2? Not every car reflects the environment like these pictures, but there are definitly cars that reflects the environment in this way. And this has nothing to do with sun oder hdr, but car paint.

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