Microsoft just announced that the new BMW M5 would be available in Forza Motorsport 4, and released a few images of that car, along with a few other BMWs. The BMW M5 will also appear on the collector edition's packshot.

Commented on 2011-06-27 13:52:33

Nice, only issue is the headlights of the orange car, and possibly the badge. It's like a premium GT5 car meets a classic one all in one shell. It's well modelled but some of the finer details are massively lower quality.

In reply to

synce

Commented on 2011-06-27 13:56:45

I don't know what happened, when it was just GT they were perfect, but as soon as Forza came along it's like the guys at PD lost focus. Now you got two mediocre series instead of one that's awesome :/

In reply to

KORNdog

Commented on 2011-06-27 13:59:42

they've definately improved their shaders. but there is still something incredibly cartoony about the look of the game. maybe it's just the look they're going for, since it's been present in all forza games thus far?

PGR was similar, less like looking at a real car, more like looking at a die cast replica...like a toy.

In reply to

moroboshi

Commented on 2011-06-27 14:12:27 In reply to KORNdog

Posted by KORNdog

they've definately improved their shaders. but there is still something incredibly cartoony about the look of the game. maybe it's just the look they're going for, since it's been present in all forza games thus far?

PGR was similar, less like looking at a real car, more like looking at a die cast replica...like a toy.

I wish people wouldn't use such hyperbole when the truth is clearly far different. Forza does not look 'cartoony', not in the slightest. It may be 1 or 2% less realistic (other opinions are available) than GT, but come on, it's a seriously impressive and realistic looking game which runs at 60fps. Some praise wouldn't go amiss.

In reply to

trueblooduk2011

Commented on 2011-06-27 14:14:46

WOW!! looking great, this game will consume my life when it arrives, so many damn fine features, raised the bar again :)

In reply to

JakeyBee

Commented on 2011-06-27 14:35:04 In reply to moroboshi

Posted by moroboshi

I wish people wouldn't use such hyperbole when the truth is clearly far different. Forza does not look 'cartoony', not in the slightest. It may be 1 or 2% less realistic (other opinions are available) than GT, but come on, it's a seriously impressive and realistic looking game which runs at 60fps. Some praise wouldn't go amiss.

I don't know Moro, while I understand your point, I understand KORN's. GT5 did two things we now know (via giant screenshots) this game doesn't. The first is AA, since these screenshots are all pre-rendered at 8X (which is "wonderful" /sarcasm T.T, I really wanted the game to look that good). The second is just how the car is placed in it's environment. Now, there's a lot of arguing you can do here, and I know that--but please, just think on your sane brainwave for just a moment before you shout at me: the car doesn't feel like it's in the game so much as put there. There's no real FOV in Forza 4, no crackles from the asphalt, no light tire trails, no fading on the car in the dimmed humid about-to-rain sky, and not enough reflection in the car to make it believable. When I looked at the GT5 shots, I was seeing things I thought were either too real, or just getting lost in close to photographic screens. I mean, don't tell me this (http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/112/1122037/gran-turismo-5-20100920070606379.jpg) doesn't look more realistic to you. Look at the entire gallery, if you want to--Gran Turismo 5 utilizes some serious mechanics to make it look like "the MOST realistic driving game to date," and while I wanted Forza 4 to beat it in that category, it's just going to have to beat "the MOST realistic racing game." Because we all know those mechanics need to be better.

In reply to

[quote=moroboshi]I wish people wouldn't use such hyperbole when the truth is clearly far different. Forza does not look 'cartoony', not in the slightest. It may be 1 or 2% less realistic (other opinions are available) than GT, but come on, it's a seriously impressive and realistic looking game which runs at 60fps. Some praise wouldn't go amiss.[/quote]
I don't know Moro, while I understand your point, I understand KORN's. GT5 did two things we now know (via giant screenshots) this game doesn't. The first is AA, since these screenshots are all pre-rendered at 8X (which is "wonderful" /sarcasm T.T, I really wanted the game to look that good). The second is just how the car is placed in it's environment. Now, there's a lot of arguing you can do here, and I know that--but please, just think on your sane brainwave for just a moment before you shout at me: the car doesn't feel like it's in the game so much as put there. There's no real FOV in Forza 4, no crackles from the asphalt, no light tire trails, no fading on the car in the dimmed humid about-to-rain sky, and not enough reflection in the car to make it believable. When I looked at the GT5 shots, I was seeing things I thought were either too real, or just getting lost in close to photographic screens. I mean, don't tell me this (http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/112/1122037/gran-turismo-5-20100920070606379.jpg) doesn't look more realistic to you. Look at the entire gallery, if you want to--Gran Turismo 5 utilizes some serious mechanics to make it look like "the MOST realistic driving game to date," and while I wanted Forza 4 to beat it in that category, it's just going to have to beat "the MOST realistic racing game." Because we all know those mechanics need to be better.

trueblooduk2011

Commented on 2011-06-27 14:37:54

The previews and hand-ons are already praising all aspects of the game, i guess we will see once the reviews start to hit.

In reply to

failingskies1974

Commented on 2011-06-27 14:40:09

Shots look amazing, but its the vids from E3 that you want to watch if you want to see it in all its glory!

In reply to

Burnwood

Commented on 2011-06-27 14:56:10

don't rate to GT, the game failed so many points in the last release, specially with its 100 or so high rendered cars, and the rest looking as good as GT2

In reply to

bleachedsmiles

Commented on 2011-06-27 15:20:00 In reply to JakeyBee

Posted by JakeyBee

I mean, don't tell me this (http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/112/1122037/gran-turismo-5-20100920070606379.jpg) doesn't look more realistic to you. Look at the entire gallery, if you want to--Gran Turismo 5 utilizes some serious mechanics to make it look like "the MOST realistic driving game to date," and while I wanted Forza 4 to beat it in that category, it's just going to have to beat "the MOST realistic racing game." Because we all know those mechanics need to be better.

The trouble is with this shot in your link it's just as much fantasy as the top bullshots here. The reality of GT5 is that it often spit and sputters when in motion at the cost of thos additional race effects from engines, tires, and weather. Often its not worth the short-comings... i think i'd rather a basic shadow/light technique in car rather than the scratched up mess GT5's shadows did offer..which are far removed from "realistic".

Both forza 3 and GT5 have their weakpoints and short comings (gt5's well documented), forza 3 had jaggies made far more obvious in screenshots than they ever were with the game in motion. I cant say i fully understand "the car doesnt feel like its in the game but put there"..when i read that i think more of a game like outrun with you planted on a stick as the track goes passed. Forza 3 lacked the additional racing visual effects of GT5..but did those effects really make GT5 the most realistic driving game to date? Rain against your windscreen looks quite a few steps behind F1..and PGR4 for that matter. Ofcourse the inclusions nice but the lack of it didnt make F3 feel like you were simply planted in the enviroment... seeing a line of car drive on a rail may more likely do that.

Lets see what Forza 4 offers fully before we decide which is the "better"..and what definatly needs improving upon. We do know atleast that the bottom set of screens probably arent bullshots, and from demonstrations the effert thats gone into the finer details of the cars is probably second to none for any racing game..sim or not.

In reply to

[quote=JakeyBee]
 I mean, don't tell me this (http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/112/1122037/gran-turismo-5-20100920070606379.jpg) doesn't look more realistic to you. Look at the entire gallery, if you want to--Gran Turismo 5 utilizes some serious mechanics to make it look like "the MOST realistic driving game to date," and while I wanted Forza 4 to beat it in that category, it's just going to have to beat "the MOST realistic racing game." Because we all know those mechanics need to be better.[/quote] The trouble is with this shot in your link it's just as much fantasy as the top bullshots here. The reality of GT5 is that it often spit and sputters when in motion at the cost of thos additional race effects from engines, tires, and weather. Often its not worth the short-comings... i think i'd rather a basic shadow/light technique in car rather than the scratched up mess GT5's shadows did offer..which are far removed from "realistic".

Both forza 3 and GT5 have their weakpoints and short comings (gt5's well documented), forza 3 had jaggies made far more obvious in screenshots than they ever were with the game in motion. I cant say i fully understand "the car doesnt feel like its in the game but put there"..when i read that i think more of a game like outrun with you planted on a stick as the track goes passed. Forza 3 lacked the additional racing visual effects of GT5..but did those effects really make GT5 the most realistic driving game to date? Rain against your windscreen looks quite a few steps behind F1..and PGR4 for that matter. Ofcourse the inclusions nice but the lack of it didnt make F3 feel like you were simply planted in the enviroment... seeing a line of car drive on a rail may more likely do that.

Lets see what Forza 4 offers fully before we decide which is the "better"..and what definatly needs improving upon. We do know atleast that the bottom set of screens probably arent bullshots, and from demonstrations the effert thats gone into the finer details of the cars is probably second to none for any racing game..sim or not.

Frozpot

Commented on 2011-06-27 15:24:13 In reply to JakeyBee

That shot doesn't look better, IMO. GT 5 doesn't have the best AA either, so I don't get why you brought that up. Seriously, some people have got some serious denial going. Did GT 5 have some nice car models and lighting? Yes, but it also had some massive graphical letdowns too, and as a whole package it was lacking, I feel. It failed in other areas beyond graphics as well if you ask me (which you didn't, but :P)
These are all photo mode BS, which I don't care about, but the footage they've shown is very nice and the interviews indicate that the gameplay will be even better...

In reply to

b0vril

Commented on 2011-06-27 16:28:16

I feel the best way to describe Forza's visuals is exotic, rather than cartoony.

I think the realism of the colours and lighting is consciously exaggerating; hyper-realism. It still all looks far more realistic than to it does exaggerated.

In reply to

Adropacrich2

Commented on 2011-06-27 16:36:13

I'll give the lighting to GT5 as it's bloody good. But Forza4's light is also exeptionally good i would say

The trouble with GT5 is so much of the enviroment is decorated with noticable flat shapes. You can be racing along and things like this really do jump out- trees mostly i guess. The very hit and miss enviroments - not just those PS2 tracks - would have surely annoyed some fans and in comparison to both Forza3,4 they're not as good

And GT5 in truth does feel rather boring.Even Forza 3 i got bored of but it was more because i was getting rather fed up of the sheer concentration you need at times. That said i'll likely get F4 on the basis it looks massively improved graphically

In reply to

omniscient

Commented on 2011-06-27 18:54:07

I guess that to get the most out of F4's visuals I'll have to spending most of my time off track :).

In reply to

nostradamus

Commented on 2011-06-27 19:27:00 In reply to KORNdog

Posted by KORNdog

they've definately improved their shaders. but there is still something incredibly cartoony about the look of the game. maybe it's just the look they're going for, since it's been present in all forza games thus far?

PGR was similar, less like looking at a real car, more like looking at a die cast replica...like a toy.

like this embarassing crap? http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2010...

Yhea... toys, indeed.

In reply to

plmko

Commented on 2011-06-27 19:31:14 In reply to omniscient

Posted by omniscient

I guess that to get the most out of F4's visuals I'll have to spending most of my time off track :).

Ha that's the thing about these games, you can spend hours in photo modes just to get that perfect shot for a potential PC wallpaper...you then forget that you're suppose to be racing.

In reply to

KORNdog

Commented on 2011-06-27 19:33:56 In reply to nostradamus

Posted by nostradamus

like this embarassing crap? http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2010...

Yhea... toys, indeed.

yeah, the bottom of a car is totally comparable to a game entire look ;)

i'm not taking a dig at the visuals, they're clearly good, but they just have a very stylised look to them that i'm not a fan of, both environment and car wise. but that is clearly their intention, it just doesnt look "real", is all. like die cast cars racing around a plastic environment. just not a style i'm really into personally. meh

In reply to

spacemanjupiter

Commented on 2011-06-27 19:36:04 In reply to JakeyBee

Posted by JakeyBee

I mean, don't tell me this (http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/112/1122037/gran-turismo-5-20100920070606379.jpg) doesn't look more realistic to you.

That photo is missing the cardboard cutout PS1 trees that are everywhere and numerous other low poly objects in the game. If there is a game where the cars don't belong in the environment, its definitely gt5. All the geometry went to SOME of the cars.

Posted by KORNdog

they've definately improved their shaders. but there is still something incredibly cartoony about the look of the game. maybe it's just the look they're going for, since it's been present in all forza games thus far?

PGR was similar, less like looking at a real car, more like looking at a die cast replica...like a toy.

I see exactly what you are talking about. There is a cartoony look to the game and PGR was like this too. That always bothered me about PGR. I sit there and think, why can't these artists see this? Are they incapable of fine tuning the shaders to something more realistic? Do they just not see it?

I think this comes down to the artists inability to tweak the shaders, or maybe they just don't see it at all, just like some non detail oriented people can't tell the difference between 30 and 60fps.

In reply to

[quote=JakeyBee]
 I mean, don't tell me this (http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/112/1122037/gran-turismo-5-20100920070606379.jpg) doesn't look more realistic to you. [/quote]

That photo is missing the cardboard cutout PS1 trees that are everywhere and numerous other low poly objects in the game. If there is a game where the cars don't belong in the environment, its definitely gt5. All the geometry went to SOME of the cars.

[quote=KORNdog]they've definately improved their shaders. but there is still something incredibly cartoony about the look of the game. maybe it's just the look they're going for, since it's been present in all forza games thus far?

PGR was similar, less like looking at a real car, more like looking at a die cast replica...like a toy.[/quote]
 
I see exactly what you are talking about. There is a cartoony look to the game and PGR was like this too. That always bothered me about PGR. I sit there and think, why can't these artists see this? Are they incapable of fine tuning the shaders to something more realistic? Do they just not see it?

I think this comes down to the artists inability to tweak the shaders, or maybe they just don't see it at all, just like some non detail oriented people can't tell the difference between 30 and 60fps.

nostradamus

Commented on 2011-06-27 19:39:12 In reply to KORNdog

Posted by KORNdog

yeah, the bottom of a car is totally comparable to a game entire look ;)

i'm not taking a dig at the visuals, they're clearly good, but they just have a very stylised look to them that i'm not a fan of, both environment and car wise. but that is clearly their intention, it just doesnt look "real", is all. like die cast cars racing around a plastic environment. just not a style i'm really into personally. meh

a bottom... MODELED FROM A ACTUAL TOY CAR.

lmao.

In reply to

spacemanjupiter

Commented on 2011-06-27 19:40:35

I have to admit though, the little gameplay I've seen if this game looks impressive.

In reply to

pythxvii

Commented on 2011-06-27 20:09:20 In reply to Tomarru

Posted by Tomarru

Nice, only issue is the headlights of the orange car, and possibly the badge. It's like a premium GT5 car meets a classic one all in one shell. It's well modelled but some of the finer details are massively lower quality.

Massive? That's a bit far, and you clearly didn't see the difference in GT5 very clearly. That part of the car would have been difficult to do really well, and would be hard to see anyway. At least it's not really low resolution texturing in there or anything.

In reply to

Jin187

Commented on 2011-06-27 20:36:11 In reply to KORNdog

Posted by KORNdog

i'm not taking a dig at the visuals, they're clearly good, but they just have a very stylised look to them that i'm not a fan of, both environment and car wise. but that is clearly their intention, it just doesnt look "real", is all. like die cast cars racing around a plastic environment. just not a style i'm really into personally. meh

It takes skill (a Skill which is clearly lacking in these images) to take realistic photos, for example,

GT5 - compare this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/62399275@N03/56911649...

to This:
http://www.wallpapers-free.co.uk/backgrounds/racin...

Forza 3 - compare this:
http://images.gamersyde.com/image_forza_motorsport...

to This:
http://i37.tinypic.com/v65hcj.jpg

In my opinion, Forza 4 has come closer than any other racer in terms of photorealism, you only need to look at the screen below and watch the videos for clear confirmation of that.

http://images.gamersyde.com/image_forza_motorsport...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkJmO2-bmLQ&feature...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy2Bc5aK9Mc&feature...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZcyVjs1ARg&feature...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Zsuz5F_9NU&feature...

In reply to

[quote=KORNdog]
i'm not taking a dig at the visuals, they're clearly good, but they just have a very stylised look to them that i'm not a fan of, both environment and car wise. but that is clearly their intention, it just doesnt look "real", is all. like die cast cars racing around a plastic environment. just not a style i'm really into personally. meh[/quote]

It takes skill (a Skill which is clearly lacking in these images) to take realistic photos, for example,

GT5 - compare this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/62399275@N03/5691164922/sizes/l/in/photostream/

to This:
http://www.wallpapers-free.co.uk/backgrounds/racing_games/gran_turismo_5/white-lamborghini-murcielago.jpg

Forza 3 - compare this:
http://images.gamersyde.com/image_forza_motorsport_3-11574-1856_0026.jpg

to This:
http://i37.tinypic.com/v65hcj.jpg

In my opinion, Forza 4 has come closer than any other racer in terms of photorealism, you only need to look at the screen below and watch the videos for clear confirmation of that.

http://images.gamersyde.com/image_forza_motorsport_4-15877-2069_0004.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkJmO2-bmLQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy2Bc5aK9Mc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZcyVjs1ARg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Zsuz5F_9NU&feature=related

KORNdog

Commented on 2011-06-27 20:48:26 In reply to Jin187

Posted by Jin187

It takes skill (a Skill which is clearly lacking in these images) to take realistic photos, for example,

GT5 - compare this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/62399275@N03/56911649...

to This:
http://www.wallpapers-free.co.uk/backgrounds/racin...

Forza 3 - compare this:
http://images.gamersyde.com/image_forza_motorsport...

to This:
http://i37.tinypic.com/v65hcj.jpg

In my opinion, Forza 4 has come closer than any other racer in terms of photorealism, you only need to look at the screen below and watch the videos for clear confirmation of that.

http://images.gamersyde.com/image_forza_motorsport...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy2Bc5aK9Mc&feature...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZcyVjs1ARg&feature...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Zsuz5F_9NU&feature...

i think GT5 has come closer, but as i said, it's the shaders and lighting (and artstyle) it's clearly not team 10's focus. and that's obviously fine for a lot of people (this thread proves as much). but it's just not for me. if you're making a "sim" racer, i want it to look as real as possible. and nothing really comes close to GT5 imo. at least not yet. i mean, i'm not saying GT5 looks like a photograph 100% of the time, no racer achieves this yet. but it's the ONLY game i've played where i've genuinely struggled to tell the difference and had to do a double take to make sure i was witnessing a game. it's a rare occurrence, but it happens and that's enough for me. forza has yet to achieve that. but i'm not sure it's their intention. in the same way realism isnt naughty dogs intention for the uncharted series.

In reply to

[quote=Jin187]

It takes skill (a Skill which is clearly lacking in these images) to take realistic photos, for example,

GT5 - compare this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/62399275@N03/5691164922/sizes/l/in/photostream/

to This:
http://www.wallpapers-free.co.uk/backgrounds/racing_games/gran_turismo_5/white-lamborghini-murcielago.jpg

Forza 3 - compare this:
http://images.gamersyde.com/image_forza_motorsport_3-11574-1856_0026.jpg

to This:
http://i37.tinypic.com/v65hcj.jpg

In my opinion, Forza 4 has come closer than any other racer in terms of photorealism, you only need to look at the screen below and watch the videos for clear confirmation of that.

http://images.gamersyde.com/image_forza_motorsport_4-15877-2069_0004.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy2Bc5aK9Mc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZcyVjs1ARg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Zsuz5F_9NU&feature=related[/quote]

i think GT5 has come closer, but as i said, it's the shaders and lighting (and artstyle) it's clearly not team 10's focus. and that's obviously fine for a lot of people (this thread proves as much). but it's just not for me. if you're making a "sim" racer, i want it to look as real as possible. and nothing really comes close to GT5 imo. at least not yet. i mean, i'm not saying GT5 looks like a photograph 100% of the time, no racer achieves this yet. but it's the ONLY game i've played where i've genuinely struggled to tell the difference and had to do a double take to make sure i was witnessing a game. it's a rare occurrence, but it happens and that's enough for me. forza has yet to achieve that. but i'm not sure it's their intention. in the same way realism isnt naughty dogs intention for the uncharted series.

PT_G4MER

Commented on 2011-06-27 21:03:08 In reply to KORNdog

Posted by KORNdog

yeah, the bottom of a car is totally comparable to a game entire look ;)

i'm not taking a dig at the visuals, they're clearly good, but they just have a very stylised look to them that i'm not a fan of, both environment and car wise. but that is clearly their intention, it just doesnt look "real", is all. like die cast cars racing around a plastic environment. just not a style i'm really into personally. meh

I think I know what you mean. I don't feel the same way but this game might be a little "weird" to some. It may be the overall style of the game, but mainly I'm guessing(just guessing) this(the picture below) maybe your main problem with the game(or its style).

http://i.imgur.com/TeZF2.jpg

I think your biggest problem with Forza it's the fact that it doesn't have this(^^) on its cover. Again, I'm just guessing ;)

In reply to

KORNdog

Commented on 2011-06-27 21:10:57 In reply to PT_G4MER

Posted by PT_G4MER

I think I know what you mean. I don't feel the same way but this game might be a little "weird" to some. It may be the overall style of the game, but mainly I'm guessing(just guessing) this(the picture below) maybe your main problem with the game(or its style).

http://i.imgur.com/TeZF2.jpg

I think your biggest problem with Forza it's the fact that it doesn't have this(^^) on its cover. Again, I'm just guessing ;)

if it makes you feel better, sure!

In reply to

Forza 4: BMW M5

BMW M5

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