The atmosphere alone does it for me. I hope they don't have some silly cheat save state system though like the original pc game. A game like this works best when the player isn't given an option to save at every unsure moment. Ruins the game for those that want to feel that sense of suspense from the action. And of course it's just lazy design
It could be argued in that usual absurd way that you don't of course have to save state like this. Unfortunately, gamers that enjoy their games to the point they really feel part of an experience, just knowing you can activate this safety net is enough to make the idea of consequence as something of a joke- much like if you knew in real life you could also rewind back to a preferred point. Save states are an excellent addition for some software but are the cancer of most pc games
Commented on 2011-07-18 22:28:20 In reply to Adropacrich2
Save anywhere is also a necessity in most games like this. Considering they are usually the type of games full of bugs and game ending glitches. Imagine fallout 3 or oblivion if you couldnt save however many times and wherever you wished. One game ending bug and you'd be forced to start over. Fine if the game is only 5 hours long, not fine when it's 40+
I'd prefer the option to be there then not tbh. As you said yourself. No-one is forcing you to save every other step, so dont. You want the intensity of a situation and the repercussions of your decisions, then only save at the end of your current session. Simple really.
All very well but an autosave works fine there, one that allows the loading of a previous save should there even be a problem- not a load state. Intelligent save systems can be developed
Save states are fine for those that need them and i'm not saying they should be outlawed entirely, but a choice chosen at your game start would be all they need to do or something
Frankly i would expect to be in a minority concerning this so hardly a surprise someone wants to defend this archaic design. A game like Oblivion and Deus scream out for a more intelligent understanding of what it really is to have true consequences in their games. Fair enough lots of people don't use save states - most gamers wont even know how to - but for a minority of gamers it stinks that they know they're even there
A good example being their inclusion into Forza 3 in the form of rewinds. Forza 4 wisely allows you to disable them before a race which is a very smart decision based on clearly many pissed fans moaning about the feature. It's then up to the player but not in the way you suggest
Commented on 2011-07-18 23:14:29 In reply to Adropacrich2
Posted by Adropacrich2
And you didn't understand my point. Tension is removed for me because i know i can save state
How so, unless you're actually using the feature it shouldnt bother you. If you run headlong into a fight, with the risk of dying and starting back 2 hours prior to that engagement, or you make a conversation choice which ends poorly, as long as you never used the save state in the first place, then those actions will have consequences you will have to live with, and thus the risk is still there, as is the tension.
All you need to enjoy games with save states, is some self control. Dont use the system and all the problems are solved, even if you are aware of the system being there it shouldnt effect how you play unless you actually use it.
Commented on 2011-07-18 23:24:22 In reply to Adropacrich2
Posted by Adropacrich2
A good example being their inclusion into Forza 3 in the form of rewinds. Forza 4 wisely allows you to disable them before a race which is a very smart decision based on clearly many pissed fans moaning about the feature. It's then up to the player but not in the way you suggest
So what you're saying is gamers dont have the self control to ignore something as blatant as rewinds? Surely thats an issue with the player, not the game? Afterall, a player who isnt using the feature would suffer the consequences after a crash.
I mean, do you really need the game to actively switch off a feature for you not to use it? Seems kinda weak?
It's not about self control. You're seeing this from your perspective. And lets be fair here, it's not exactly weak if you choose to use it anyway - some people will want to and that's also fine. I would like the choice other than what feels less of a choice as it currently is this way- to me
Like i say i'm clearly in a minority so lets just leave it there.
Commented on 2011-07-18 23:47:34 In reply to Adropacrich2
Posted by Adropacrich2
A game like Oblivion and Deus scream out for a more intelligent understanding of what it really is to have true consequences in their games.
The reason you're in the minority is because "real life" already has enough true consequences. Most people play games to escape, relax, and have fun. I love challenging games too but don't like having to waste too much time replaying long stretches of gameplay after a death. And that's another reason why save anywhere works so well.
Commented on 2011-07-19 00:58:46 In reply to ASURAshadow
Posted by ASURAshadow
The reason you're in the minority is because "real life" already has enough true consequences. Most people play games to escape, relax, and have fun. I love challenging games too but don't like having to waste too much time replaying long stretches of gameplay after a death. And that's another reason why save anywhere works so well.
Yes that's fair enough but for some it's not an enjoyable feature- the game does actually become less fun as a result for me and a minorty of others. I have more fun playing certain games when the experience is a more real one than it is game one- obviously not always every game. So for me what you say wont apply. And of course i don't mean real in the sense you can die of course but have a better sense of satisfaction when as in life it doesn't give me an option
My example might be that while in our real life we have the chance to rewind time prior to any considered hairy moment. Some of the things that were once feared or considered a danger to us wouldn't exist in that same way any more. Such things that don't result in certain death like perhaps walking to the very edge of a cliff might not concern us if we knew how easy it was to alter out consequence. We would naturally behave differently because of this and it's exactly now how i act differently now because a save state exists in a game
@Adropacrich2
With your logic games shouldn't have difficulty settings, because it ruins the tension when I know I can just play the game on an easier setting. You're just creating problems where there ain't any. If you don't like it, then don't use it.
Your argument doesn't make any sense
Look, it's not a logic, it's how i feel myself personally. What i'll do in future is just write some random words here and maybe people will better understand
You're also taking what i say to an extreme regards to difficulty. Obviously you choose your difficulty level, i'm not applying what i say to that- perhaps an even more minority would disagree?
The argument that you don't have to use it is so missing the point about what i said in the first place and don't understand why people need to say it
Where i am, your argument also doesn't make any sense, because you aren't me
I definitely get where you're coming from Adropacrich2. It's something I've thought about a lot; Dangerous Vs Safe gameplay.
Some games absolutely benefit from taking the safeties off and letting the player deal with his/her actions. It can really slow you down and make you think about the choices and actions you'll make. Can really add to the imerssion.
As for Deus Ex.. for me at least I'd probably like to play it with quick saves/loads as I love playing these kind of games with full stealth and that can be so difficult as it's mostly trial and error during your first run.
Although I don't think I would weep if there weren't save states. Messing up and having to think on your feet is fun too.. and frustrating :p
Yes both these ways in fact can be a lot of fun like you say. Save states are brilliant when you want to try something very different but from that same set up- and you cant always do that if it reverts to an auto save. Options to tailor what you want from a save system would be a nice focus from devs
I honestly do like save states but not when i'm not given an option to disable them before you start your game- what game actually does?
I think it's an important part of the game enough thay devs should focus more time into getting it right for everyone
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All comments (18)
Commented on 2011-07-18 21:22:48It could be argued in that usual absurd way that you don't of course have to save state like this. Unfortunately, gamers that enjoy their games to the point they really feel part of an experience, just knowing you can activate this safety net is enough to make the idea of consequence as something of a joke- much like if you knew in real life you could also rewind back to a preferred point. Save states are an excellent addition for some software but are the cancer of most pc games
Commented on 2011-07-18 22:28:20 In reply to Adropacrich2I'd prefer the option to be there then not tbh. As you said yourself. No-one is forcing you to save every other step, so dont. You want the intensity of a situation and the repercussions of your decisions, then only save at the end of your current session. Simple really.
Commented on 2011-07-18 22:58:07Save states are fine for those that need them and i'm not saying they should be outlawed entirely, but a choice chosen at your game start would be all they need to do or something
Commented on 2011-07-18 22:58:47
Commented on 2011-07-18 23:13:42A good example being their inclusion into Forza 3 in the form of rewinds. Forza 4 wisely allows you to disable them before a race which is a very smart decision based on clearly many pissed fans moaning about the feature. It's then up to the player but not in the way you suggest
Commented on 2011-07-18 23:14:29 In reply to Adropacrich2All you need to enjoy games with save states, is some self control. Dont use the system and all the problems are solved, even if you are aware of the system being there it shouldnt effect how you play unless you actually use it.
Commented on 2011-07-18 23:19:52 In reply to KORNdog
Commented on 2011-07-18 23:24:22 In reply to Adropacrich2I mean, do you really need the game to actively switch off a feature for you not to use it? Seems kinda weak?
Commented on 2011-07-18 23:29:51Like i say i'm clearly in a minority so lets just leave it there.
Commented on 2011-07-18 23:39:25I might reconsider this one.
Commented on 2011-07-18 23:47:34 In reply to Adropacrich2
Commented on 2011-07-19 00:07:56
Commented on 2011-07-19 00:58:46 In reply to ASURAshadowMy example might be that while in our real life we have the chance to rewind time prior to any considered hairy moment. Some of the things that were once feared or considered a danger to us wouldn't exist in that same way any more. Such things that don't result in certain death like perhaps walking to the very edge of a cliff might not concern us if we knew how easy it was to alter out consequence. We would naturally behave differently because of this and it's exactly now how i act differently now because a save state exists in a game
Commented on 2011-07-19 01:08:11With your logic games shouldn't have difficulty settings, because it ruins the tension when I know I can just play the game on an easier setting. You're just creating problems where there ain't any. If you don't like it, then don't use it.
Your argument doesn't make any sense
Commented on 2011-07-19 01:25:06You're also taking what i say to an extreme regards to difficulty. Obviously you choose your difficulty level, i'm not applying what i say to that- perhaps an even more minority would disagree?
The argument that you don't have to use it is so missing the point about what i said in the first place and don't understand why people need to say it
Where i am, your argument also doesn't make any sense, because you aren't me
Commented on 2011-07-19 01:36:13Some games absolutely benefit from taking the safeties off and letting the player deal with his/her actions. It can really slow you down and make you think about the choices and actions you'll make. Can really add to the imerssion.
As for Deus Ex.. for me at least I'd probably like to play it with quick saves/loads as I love playing these kind of games with full stealth and that can be so difficult as it's mostly trial and error during your first run.
Although I don't think I would weep if there weren't save states. Messing up and having to think on your feet is fun too.. and frustrating :p
Commented on 2011-07-19 01:51:12I honestly do like save states but not when i'm not given an option to disable them before you start your game- what game actually does?
I think it's an important part of the game enough thay devs should focus more time into getting it right for everyone
Commented on 2011-07-19 02:14:52When it is i play this, i could always employ someone to kick me in the nuts as punishment i suppose should i be thinking about savestates in this way