2012-04-05 23:05:28

In fairness, even as someone who hasn't played (well, finished) 2 or 3, I still applaud them for trying something a little different. Wouldn't what you expect have been a bit... well, too expected?

My main concern for fans is that this indoctrination theory is more of a coincidence which fits into the story, rather than something which Bioware actually came up with.

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Winter is coming. Brrrr.

2012-04-06 01:21:33

I mean that it's kinda unexpected to have the last minutes of the game to be like this. I don't care if my hope for the game was "Expected", I just wanted more than one ending and to me a ME2 style ending mission would have been a very satisfying one.

ME2's final mission, including the cutscenes, must have taken roughly... Well, I don't want to make a guess and be completely wrong but about 35-60 minutes long. And during all of that it was incredibly tense. I've not played many games that have kept me on the edge of my seat, and certainly none that have done it for that long.

With the (very superior) soundtrack booming overhead as you fought through the collectors, decisions you made during the game reflecting on the outcome and who lives or dies in this team that you have spent hours putting together, being able to use every one in your squad to do different things (take two guys with you, send an engineer to lower defences, get someone to lead a Fire Team to draw away the collectors, get a biotic to sheild you from the seeker swarms ect.) at once made the mission that much more intense.

But the ending to ME3 was pretty lacking, in that you just ran through London. Not much of the mission was memorable but defending the Thanix guns and running for the beam. Although much more was at stake this time around, it didn't feel nearly as tense as the Collector base did.

The Indoctrination ending is good. Great, even. But it didn't really give off a lasting impression like ME2 did. They took out an epic large scale battle where everything was at stake for a initially confusing, though admittedly well done sequence. They advertised the game with the tagline "Take back Earth", but all we really did was help London a little(which did pretty much nothing as far as the entirity of the reaper threat is concerned).

I wanted to actually see the fleets I had massed in it's ENTIRITY. I wanted to see the badass pirate mercs tearing up shit, I wanted to see the Geth and Quarian fleets working together, but you don't see any of it. You just feel like a random grunt on London, not the guy who stopped Saren, fucking DIED and came back and saved the Galaxy twice. I wanted a huge scale battle where the fate of every fleet and platoon/legion I was assigned was hinged on my words, my choices, my actions, just like entire races, colonies, and individual souls did in the previous two games.

Like I said, Indoctrination is cool and all, and it's very clever, but don't leave it till the end of the franchise to introduce it as a huge plot-point for Shepard. Bioware weren't even planning on releasing content until everyone started to flame them, they were CONTENT with that ending, they were content with leaving the story, franchise, and overall lasting memory in tatters for some nonsensical bollocks. Try something different, Bioware, but don't do it on the final chapter of their most critically aclaimed series.

Fuck that shit.

2012-04-06 02:03:34 In reply to JMadden (2012-04-06 01:21:33)

Fair play. Like I've said, I only played about 2-3 hours of ME2 so can't really comment.

But what you've said just kinda justified my feeling that they didn't intend for the ending to be quite as underlyingly brilliant as some make it out to be. The fact they were actually content with it, and have only acted on it because of the fans' backlash, suggests that they just wanted an ending which meant that future games could be set in the same universe.

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Winter is coming. Brrrr.

2012-04-06 10:16:39

Isn't that kind of the thing though, the repes throw the ultimate challenge at Shepard, where he must discern what is them fucking with his head and wat is real? It like, fine the reapers know that you can fight, so now it's time to throw a wrench in to te machinery and fuck with you big time and try to make YOU do the dirty work for them. In a way, by choosing the destruction ending you clear the hardest challenge of all.

And again, it wasn't left to the end of the game. It's been there in the background for the entire series. First you have Saren indoctrinated, to show you what can happen, then you have the Illusive man doing researh and describing it in ME2 and you have even mroe interaction with reper stuffs in ME2 DLC and ME3. The only reason it's not part of the story arc outside of the ending is because, well you aren't supposed to notice it before you go "aha!", isn't that the point of the indoctrination? That it's subtle?

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Nerd Rage

2012-04-06 12:54:07

Megido, you're giving bioware way too much credit. I wan't to believe in IT aswell, but it's too convenient an answer and could have been accomplished far better. Plus, if it is true, it still leaves the game with no ending, you have accomplished nothing. On the other hand, if you pick any of the options and they are real you become the illusive man, or you destroy the entire galaxy and everyone in it. It's easier to believe everything is just a coincidence and it's just an awful ending resulting from some terrible writing, we've all seen the leaks and the accusations now, so it's obvious the ending was hashed together. At least IT gives them a way out of this mess.

blmbox, the way the ended it theres no way of returning to the same universe, they have destroyed it, everything and everyone in it no longer exist and the fans are frankly so sick of what they were served they wouldn't buy into anything bioware shovel out with the same name anyway. It's such a PR disaster that it has managed to damage their brand in such a way that it is essentially dead. Hard to believe I know, but when you get there they manage to kill a franchise in 5 minutes or less.

2012-04-06 13:16:03 In reply to Megido (2012-04-06 10:16:39)

Well said.

2012-04-06 13:25:40

By this point i don't give a shit about what Bioware had intended. I mean, it fits with the story, it makes it interesting and satisfying. I buy it, i had a fun time palying the game, i'm happy.

Why are you obsessing over what bioware had meant or not? If in the end you can look at it and think "hmm, the indoctrination idea sounds plausible and works in the canon of the game!", then isn't that enough?

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Nerd Rage

2012-04-06 15:15:48

Because it's a pretty cheap move to pretend that you were planning the Indoctrination ending all along? Bioware has said that they were content with that ending that left nothing resolved, and now that they have been asked for an actual ending they are probably gonna pass off the indoctrination theory as their own.

EDIT: No, it isn't really enough. The ending is very clever, but it doesn't mean it is a good one.

2012-04-06 16:25:20

Don't get how it's clever either, the resolutions are,
Synthesis : Space magic magically combines every living being with synthetic parts which somehow prevents them from ever creating pure synthetics which would start the cycle again anyway.
Control : Become the illusive man, accept everything the illusive man has been telling you even though you have been fighting him and his ideas for two whole games, somehow shepard thinks becoming a reaper will let him control them rather than the other way round just because some starkid told him so.
Destroy : Destroy the reapers, all life in the galaxy, all technology and yourself. Starkid will let you kill his creations, he decided having an off switch would be too much hassle so he made some space magic that kills everything.

Then there are all the things like relay destruction, joker the pussy, teleporting squad members, "nobody reached the beam", anderson reaching the console, starkid himself, shepard gives up, magic wounds, stranded fleet etc that just happen in 5 - 10 mins. Theres dozens of videos out there that have deconstructed the ending with far more energy than i can be bothered to muster, from their ability to not just ignore the previous games but to go out of their way to do everything to contradict everything that has gone before all the way to every plot hole resulting from the last 10 mins.

It's like watching all 3 lord of the rings movies or reading the books then just as frodo reaches mount doom aliens come down and go all independance day and kill everyone. Hah, what a tweeeeest, didnt see that coming, the end. The ending is that far removed from everything, IT is the only thing that can reel it back and as I said, it's only by filling in the spaces left by poor writing and execution that we can get it, not by any intelligent design on biowares part. Surely they know theyve fucked up when their fans are hoping it was all a dream rather than accepting the ending on face value.

2012-04-06 16:39:48 In reply to Megido (2012-04-06 13:25:40)

lol i just dont get it either, the ending was great for me and made perfect sense, i just dont get all this crying over the ending.

2012-04-06 18:38:35

@ Tom: I meant the indoctrination theory, not the individual, stupid endings themselves.

@Fabreez: I suggest getting to fuck and leaving room for people who can follow a damn conversation. Really, if you (and Megido for that matter) read the genuine critisism you would understand the "crying" about the ending. There are a ton of comments in this thread about why they didn't like it.

2012-04-06 19:33:02 In reply to JMadden (2012-04-06 18:38:35)

lol Please!

I have listened to the complaints and i dont agree hence why i dont get all the bitching and crying, and the same shit keeps on being said over and over!, we get it you dont like the ending.
How about you just get the fuck over it and move on.

2012-04-06 19:36:53

Just finished the game (again :) ) and got the one of best endings, i have to say im very satisfied with the ending, could it have been a bit more fleshed out yes, but it was still an excellent ending and brilliant trilogy, well done Casey! :)

2012-04-06 20:22:54 In reply to fabreezwait (2012-04-06 19:33:02)

It's not me that has to get over anything, I'm having a discussion with another member of the site. You (and to a lesser extent Megido, cause he is now at least providing actual arguments) need to get over yourself and realise that not everyone is gonna be satisfied by the same thing.

Your complaining that we keep saying the same stuff over and over when really it's just you thats doing that. I provided a post which raised more reasons why I didn't think the ending lived up to what they advertised, but all you keep saying is "I don't get why they are bitching and crying" in every damn post you make. The more posts you make, the more obvious it is that you aren't reading a single point that I or anyone else but Megido has raised.

Leave the damn thread, or make a contribution to it.

@Megido: Yeah I know it was a part of the game before, and it is a good part, don't get me wrong, but it still feels kinda out of place... It is very relevant to the series as the Illusive man and Saren were both indoctrinated, but for that to be the ending is weird. Oh, and we're talking about this as if the ending was constructed in mind of an indoctrination ending, but since Bioware were content with their ending and weren't going to elaborate, it just seems like the ending is down completely to bad writing, something I would never expect from Bioware after KOTOR, ME 1, 2, and ME3 minus the ending.

Do your self a favour and leave a reply (because I know you will) that constructively explains why our points aren't relevant, and why yours are.

2012-04-06 20:28:27 In reply to JMadden (2012-04-06 20:22:54)

Bollocks i was talking to Megido not you, and you got involved... if i want to discuss something on here with another member i will, fuck you very much.

2012-04-06 20:29:12 In reply to sanex (2012-04-06 19:36:53)

yep for sure.

2012-04-06 21:14:56 In reply to fabreezwait (2012-04-06 20:29:12)

Trust me this forum is not bad at all, if you really want to see wailing and gnashing of teeth about the ending, head over to the ME forums, i think they are planning a mass suicide attempt, to get Bioware to change the ending lol.

:)

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Prepare To Drop!!

2012-04-10 04:57:22

Hmmmm. You know I think many people just don't understand that all of this gamer rage has been building for the last 3 years since the release of ME2. Not every Mass Effect fan liked that game, and things weren't made better by Dragon Age 2 either. I think it all just came out unfortunately on ME3 with force of a hurricane. It also doesn't help that gamers absolutely hate Electronic Arts with a passion. Bioware under another publisher might not have gotten such a reaction.

But Bioware still hasn't acknowledged just how much ME3 completely contradicts the two previous games. So much of the universe's lore is now broken, and even more of it's continuity was smashed in the making of this game. Hiding behind the words "artistic integrity" isn't going to improve things. If anything it will just make things worse. lol!

Anywho, Bioware is releasing some new DLC for the multiplayer tomorrow.

2012-04-10 05:11:38

Gamers just need to drop their goddamn attitude of entitlement. You don't own the game just because you palyed it, the developer doesn't owe you anything more than what you get when you pay. That's theproblem. Gamer feel entitled to this and that, they shouldn't.

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Nerd Rage

2012-04-10 05:53:09

Perhaps there were quite a few gamers who put in a combined 120+ hours across three games into a franchise, who perhaps wanted to know what happened to the characters they built relationships with over that long amount of time. And perhaps for a game that literally assigned a point system to key choices made throughout these 120+ hours, they thought some of it might come into accordance with their ending. Nevermind the fact that they didn't even get to figure out who was alive at the end of the game.

2012-04-10 07:47:59 In reply to Megido (2012-04-10 05:11:38)

Excuse me? Megido you do live on Planet Earth with rest of us don't you? Lmao!!! When have consumers EVER dropped their attitudes of entitlement? And why would you think that gamers would be any different? Forget it and come back to reality, that's just not going to happen. Besides, (in part) consumer entitlement is a monster that western marketing created a long time ago.

But the problem remains, Bioware has an enraged fanbase. Whether or not people agree that their rage is justified or not no longer matters, that ship has already left port and it's not coming back. BUT.......it would probably be in Bioware's best BUSINESS interests to acquiesce and give these crazy people what they're asking for.

Hiding behind artistic integrity? Not the best business move right now, no company is immune to consumer rage. Just give these people what they're asking for and get it out of the way. They could always disregard any new endings and make one of the old multicolored endings canon for the franchise. There's no reason for them to take such a tough stand with their fanbase over this, most of them blame EA for it all anyway.

2012-04-10 08:21:24 In reply to Megido (2012-04-10 05:11:38)

We will moan in the same way we moan about Alien VS Predator been absolute shit, for resident evil movies for been absolute shit (i want the george romero version :( )

I have not played the game but from what i have heard i understand why there pissed (specially when you take quotes of bioware into consideration, the lies they said before launch are just fucking wrong)
This is not like the people who moan about Halo for been shit (obvious trolls talking shit) a lot of them a riding the band wagon yes, but the majority of them are screaming for legit reasons and the main reason been the lies.

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PSN:ManThatYouFear
GT: ManThatYouFear
Real Life: ThatTwat

2012-04-10 10:18:16

I think the main reason people are moaning is because their expectations were too high.

I will say when i think something is wrong, i don't demand that the developer go back and fix it. That's the big difference. If someone made something bad, then it's bad. I whine a bit if it was something i wanted to be good and then move on. I don't send fucking 400 cupcakes to them, or start some retarded fucking movement to get it, in my view, corrected.

And no, i dont expect people to be thatlevel headed, i people are complete goddamn retards that can't just accept that they didn't get the exact ending they were expecting. That stil doesn't mean that gamers, especially, have this fucked up idea of entitlement. Now when you put in money in a kickstarter gmae or something, then i imagine you'd have more of an argument, but i don't even want to know how ugly that shit is going to turn when the shit hits the fan :P

Phaeton: So let's see here, people play 120 hour which of 119 they enjoy and then there is outrage? Curse you bioware for making 3 enjoyable games, ending with a ok ending instead of the mindblowing, brain orgazm inducing super ending we were expecting!

It's not "hiding" behind artistic creativity to not go back and change the ending because of a few sniveling fans. I'm betting that the whiny fuckers are a general minority as well. Not to mention that they will all line up to buy the next ME game no matter what. That's what i hate even more, people whine their asses off and hate and rage, but when push comes to shove instead of speaking with their wallets they still buy the next part of a series.

I can see exactly one reason for Bioware and EA to change the ending. To be able to sell the new one to you for anohter 10 bucks.

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Nerd Rage

2012-04-10 10:31:31

I see your argument i honestly do, but i think you just gotta ignore it and move on, in the same vain your telling them to.

Also yeah people, SPEAK with your wallets as he says, fucking sick of this "OMFG COD IS SHIT NEVER WILL I TOUCH IT AGAIN" they then go on to buy every fucking map pack and repeat with next game (cod is just reference i don't want to start talking about it..)

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PSN:ManThatYouFear
GT: ManThatYouFear
Real Life: ThatTwat

2012-04-10 11:41:44 In reply to Megido (2012-04-10 10:18:16)

Got to agree with this.

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Prepare To Drop!!