Imax Impressions of Halo 3 showing last page.

Since 6782 Days

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quit complaining!

if you don't like it then don't fucking buy it.

Halo has always had more to offer than graphics. could they be better? yes. but then again so can every other game out there.

game play is where its at and that's what has all of us Halo fans wanting this next iteration. the story is very compelling and engaging which is why all of us want to finish the fight.

if you want graphics over game play then go play killzone 2

you know what you're getting with Halo. don't like it? tough shit!

Finish The Fight Sept. 25th

Halo 3 Bitches!!!

Beware, Heretic is on the prowl!!!

Eddy186

Since 6755 Days

Well they better make a Halo4! They better make it with smooth animations, bump-mapping, 4xAA, etc. At this point I really wouldnt mind if they delayed Halo3 if they needed to revamp the engine. They may be finished content wise but engine wise I think they need more time.

Edit because of heretic's response: Why can't they have good graphics and gameplay! Let people be disappointed if they want to because it doesnt live up to their expectations! Why is it bad to suggest the game might need improvements in certain areas! And if you dont like the responses then TOUGH SHIT! Yeah I said it, TOUGH SHIT!

In reply to

LEBATO

Since 6931 Days

This message is in "Boulet Time" (TM), If you still *really* want to see it, click here

Posted by Heretic

quit complaining!

if you don't like it then don't fucking buy it.

Halo has always had more to offer than graphics. could they be better? yes. but then again so can every other game out there.

game play is where its at and that's what has all of us Halo fans wanting this next iteration. the story is very compelling and engaging which is why all of us want to finish the fight.

if you want graphics over game play then go play killzone 2

you know what you're getting with Halo. don't like it? tough shit!

Oh........you are one of those......

deftangel

Since 6677 Days

Hey everyone's entitled to their opinions, we're critiquing a game here. No games perfect, not even Bioshock!

I barely noticed a jaggy whilst playing during the Beta and I think it's fair to say the SP looks better than that so I don't think it's an issue, particulary given the scale of combat on offer.

That said, it's not the end of the world is a few people want it all. It's good to be demanding!

In reply to

LEBATO

Since 6931 Days

Posted by deftangel

Hey everyone's entitled to their opinions, we're critiquing a game here.

quit complaining!

if you don't like it then don't fucking buy it.

if you want graphics over game play then go play killzone 2

you know what you're getting with Halo. don't like it? tough shit!

Man, I'm just going to take the day off.

In reply to

Myro

Since 6737 Days

Posted by Optimusv2

Game's art is fantastic.

SP looks really awesome.

Surely that is single player. You can see the spartan ID tags above their names.

edit: unless that's co-op?

In reply to

Alcohol and drugs and my biggest fans. They follow me where ever i go.

Phaethon360

Since 6655 Days

That's gotta be co-op. There'd be a score somewhere on the screen if it were MP.

In reply to

Phaethon, the forum Spectre.

Acert93

Since 6780 Days

Posted by deftangel

Ive not seen tons of jaggies from what I've had access to but such things are subjective, dependent on TV's and the like. I'd be very suprised if it transpired that Halo 3 had no AA, put it that way.

Some of the recent (but old) screenshots have no MSAA at all.

Bungie hasn't talked about MSAA; but MS sure has. They actually originally promised all games would have a minimum 2xMSAA (later changed in dev documents to "some form of anti-aliasing") but strongly suggested 4xMSAA. I know a developer who was told without MSAA they wouldn't get certified.

It would be utter bullocks if MS's biggest franchise shipping with crap aliasing, especially considering the attitude and grief MS gave to some 3rd parties over the issue and the impact it had on gameplay. Seeing a number of new games with 4xMSAA, and how developers worked their butts off to writer renderers to work well with tiling, only raises the bar.

After the E3 2006 trailer and the E3 2007 SP shots with a ton of AA, I don't expect anything less than 4xMSAA.

Does anyone, based on the realtime SP media & MS MSAA marketing, expect anything less?

Posted by Phaethon360

The best example I can give is to compare these shots

http://www.bungie.net/images/games/halo3/screensho...
http://www.bungie.net/images/Games/Halo3/Screensho...

That 2nd shot is an absolute bullshot--the resolution gives it away.

In reply to

[quote=deftangel]Ive not seen tons of jaggies from what I've had access to but such things are subjective, dependent on TV's and the like. I'd be very suprised if it transpired that Halo 3 had no AA, put it that way.[/quote]

Some of the recent (but old) screenshots have no MSAA at all.

Bungie hasn't talked about MSAA; but MS sure has. They actually originally promised all games would have a minimum 2xMSAA (later changed in dev documents to "some form of anti-aliasing") but strongly suggested 4xMSAA. I know a developer who was told without MSAA they wouldn't get certified.

It would be utter bullocks if MS's biggest franchise shipping with crap aliasing, especially considering the attitude and grief MS gave to some 3rd parties over the issue and the impact it had on gameplay. Seeing a number of new games with 4xMSAA, and how developers worked their butts off to writer renderers to work well with tiling, only raises the bar.

After the E3 2006 trailer and the E3 2007 SP shots with a ton of AA, I don't expect anything less than 4xMSAA.

Does anyone, based on the realtime SP media & MS MSAA marketing, expect anything less?

[quote=Phaethon360]The best example I can give is to compare these shots

http://www.bungie.net/images/games/halo3/screenshots/h3_e32006_Custom_ChiefCliff.jpg
http://www.bungie.net/images/Games/Halo3/Screenshots/H3_E307_3P05.jpg[/quote]

That 2nd shot is an absolute bullshot--the resolution gives it away.

The fans have spoken. Concerning the graphics of the Halo 3 Beta: "There's so many little effects and things going on that make this game pretty much 2nd only to Gears at the moment."

arcaNe

Since 6168 Days

I just listened to the newest Bungie podcast and the lead AI programmer was talking about animation and how the technology behind it really hasn't changed in years, especially with regards to the AI controlling the transitions in the animation. That right there to me is an indication that the animation in this game is not going to be very good. I think maybe they should take a look at what Ninja Theory is doing with Heavenly Sword. And I think systems like Natural Motion seem to be advancing animation significantly and even Madden is doing a much better job this year using branching and physics.

A little bit of a let down for me but it is still by far my most anticipated game. :)

In reply to

Acert93

Since 6780 Days

Posted by arcaNe

I just listened to the newest Bungie podcast and the lead AI programmer was talking about animation and how the technology behind it really hasn't changed in years

Bungie needs to hire some need folks then for animation because there has been a bit of progress in this field over the years. Everything from sport games (like the Xbox 2K series) and Madden (which now has dynamic animation branching even on the older consoles) to newer stuff like the Indiana Jones and Starwars games (using Endorphine), Assassin's Creed, Killzone 2, etc.

especially with regards to the AI controlling the transitions in the animation.

That is an excuse. If you dedicate the resources you can improve animation tweening and transitions.

The Brutes standing there like rigid action figures cannot be explained by this excuse either.

That right there to me is an indication that the animation in this game is not going to be very good. I think maybe they should take a look at what Ninja Theory is doing with Heavenly Sword. And I think systems like Natural Motion seem to be advancing animation significantly and even Madden is doing a much better job this year using branching and physics.

Sing to the choir! I need to go dig up some of my old posts how animation is at least 50% of graphic impact -- still visuals are only 1 element of "graphics" and as we begin to hit the diminishing returns in still shot quality there is IMMENSE room for animation fidelity, dynamics, and believability to breath new life into games.

In reply to

[quote=arcaNe]I just listened to the newest Bungie podcast and the lead AI programmer was talking about animation and how the technology behind it really hasn't changed in years[/quote]

Bungie needs to hire some need folks then for animation because there has been a bit of progress in this field over the years. Everything from sport games (like the Xbox 2K series) and Madden (which now has dynamic animation branching even on the older consoles) to newer stuff like the Indiana Jones and Starwars games (using Endorphine), Assassin's Creed, Killzone 2, etc.

[quote]especially with regards to the AI controlling the transitions in the animation.[/quote]

That is an excuse. If you dedicate the resources you can improve animation tweening and transitions.

The Brutes standing there like rigid action figures cannot be explained by this excuse either.

[quote]That right there to me is an indication that the animation in this game is not going to be very good.  I think maybe they should take a look at what Ninja Theory is doing with Heavenly Sword.  And I think systems like Natural Motion seem to be advancing animation significantly and even Madden is doing a much better job this year using branching and physics.[/quote]

Sing to the choir! I need to go dig up some of my old posts how animation is at least 50% of graphic impact -- still visuals are only 1 element of "graphics" and as we begin to hit the diminishing returns in still shot quality there is IMMENSE room for animation fidelity, dynamics, and believability to breath new life into games.

The fans have spoken. Concerning the graphics of the Halo 3 Beta: "There's so many little effects and things going on that make this game pretty much 2nd only to Gears at the moment."

XAL

Since 6802 Days

This message is in "Boulet Time" (TM), If you still *really* want to see it, click here

Posted by Phaethon360

The environments look about the same. The Covenant ships look exactly the same, in some ways they look a bit better now (more reflective banshees). And the only real thing missing from the scenery are the particle effects and extensive DOF used in the cutscene.

I'm not going to say that the screens look as good as the media released in 06. But I say its more of a difference in the sense like how the Mad World trailer looked to Gears of War gameplay. I think doing a montage on a game with so little released media pretty much shoots itself in the foot. Can't judge a game that way. If they'd released a few gameplay videos of those scenes, then we'd be in business. But 2-3 secs really doesn't convey much of a scene at all.

The best example I can give is to compare these shots

http://www.bungie.net/images/games/halo3/screensho...
http://www.bungie.net/images/Games/Halo3/Screensho...

About the same? A bit better?
You need glasses, son. The Beta environments for Multiplayer were much better than Campaign environments Halo 2.
The vehicles have A LOT more detail and clarity over the vehicles from Halo 2 - put screens side by side of the Banshees and the Ghosts from the two games - big ass difference.

As for the last 2 images, the first trailer was an in-engine target trailer. Of course it's not going to look anything like gameplay in the end - also, the kind of beaten, rough, and shiny armor in the trailer was changed to the new smooth and not as damaged armor for artistic reasons. Personally I prefer the new armor over this: http://www.bungie.net/images/games/halo3/screensho...

That kind of armor (like the one in the first trailer) just sticks out like a sore thumb in a really bad way.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with this:
http://www.bungie.net/images/Games/Halo3/Screensho...
or even this
http://www.bungie.net/images/Games/Halo3/Screensho...

*EDIT*

This should be adequate proof.
Vehicles and Player model
http://www.gamespot.com/features/6170862/p-1.html
Guns
http://www.gamespot.com/features/6170862/p-2.html
Environments
http://www.gamespot.com/features/6170862/p-3.html

PlumbDrumb

Since 6803 Days

Please don't tell people they "are blind" "need glasses" "need to get their eyes checked", etc.. or I'll ban your ass.
I'm sick of that shit a long time ago.

In reply to

Children of the Blim

Phaethon360

Since 6655 Days

You should have read my comment a little more in depth. I was comparing the E3 2006 vid of Halo 3 to the E3 2007 screen shots.

In reply to

Phaethon, the forum Spectre.

Optimusv2

Since 6701 Days

Posted by arcaNe

I just listened to the newest Bungie podcast and the lead AI programmer was talking about animation and how the technology behind it really hasn't changed in years, especially with regards to the AI controlling the transitions in the animation. That right there to me is an indication that the animation in this game is not going to be very good. I think maybe they should take a look at what Ninja Theory is doing with Heavenly Sword. And I think systems like Natural Motion seem to be advancing animation significantly and even Madden is doing a much better job this year using branching and physics.

A little bit of a let down for me but it is still by far my most anticipated game. :)

eh... thats the last game they should be taking pointers from. Sure it looks great in a number of areas, but that AI is disgusting I think. Would we want Heavenly's Animation in Halo 3, along with the bad AI too?

Ultimately I think what we are seeing is exactly what Randy Pitchford from Gearbox said earlier on actually happening.

It doesn't matter how much money these developers are putting into titles they wont come anywhere close to optimal on the first go. The awesome jump from cod2 to cod4 supports this as well as a number of other cases. Personally I like how halo 3 looks, perhaps the next game they make will be the whizz bang graphical showcase people wanted. Personally listening to the ai programmer talk and reading some of the impressions I have on the ai. I'm more than satisfied with Halo 3 is doing.

Acert how is this a bullshot?

Its straight gameplay according to bungie.

http://www.bungie.net/images/Games/Halo3/Screensho... Sure they likely touched up the AA, but I believe thats ingame.

In reply to

[quote=arcaNe]I just listened to the newest Bungie podcast and the lead AI programmer was talking about animation and how the technology behind it really hasn't changed in years, especially with regards to the AI controlling the transitions in the animation.  That right there to me is an indication that the animation in this game is not going to be very good.  I think maybe they should take a look at what Ninja Theory is doing with Heavenly Sword.  And I think systems like Natural Motion seem to be advancing animation significantly and even Madden is doing a much better job this year using branching and physics.

A little bit of a let down for me but it is still by far my most anticipated game. :)[/quote]

eh... thats the last game they should be taking pointers from.  Sure it looks great in a number of areas, but that AI is disgusting I think.  Would we want Heavenly's Animation in Halo 3, along with the bad AI too?

Ultimately I think what we are seeing is exactly what Randy Pitchford from Gearbox said earlier on actually happening.

It doesn't matter how much money these developers are putting into titles they wont come anywhere close to optimal on the first go.  The awesome jump from cod2 to cod4 supports this as well as a number of other cases.  Personally I like how halo 3 looks, perhaps the next game they make will be the whizz bang graphical showcase people wanted.  Personally listening to the ai programmer talk and reading some of the impressions I have on the ai.  I'm more than satisfied with Halo 3 is doing.

Acert how is this a bullshot?

Its straight gameplay according to bungie.

http://www.bungie.net/images/Games/Halo3/Screenshots/H3_E307_3P05.jpg  Sure they likely touched up the AA, but I believe thats ingame.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

October 20th 2007 (A good day)

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of the greatest books ever.

pssh! more like electronic gay-ming monthly! amirite

Phaethon360

Since 6655 Days

Posted by Optimusv2

eh... thats the last game they should be taking pointers from. Sure it looks great in a number of areas, but that AI is disgusting I think. Would we want Heavenly's Animation in Halo 3, along with the bad AI too?

Disgusting? I wouldn't say that at all. It's a more slow paced action game. The same way Nariko attempts to counter her enemies, the AI tries to find weaknesses and openings to attack her. If the AI were attacking her all the time, it'd be come a blocking fest. And just wouldn't be desirable based on the number of enemies you'll encounter.

In reply to

Phaethon, the forum Spectre.

Optimusv2

Since 6701 Days

When you think about it like that I suppose its more easier to stomach, but like sometimes it looks REALLY ridiculous like when they aren't attacking they aren't doing much of anything.

Ultimately I guess that game shouldn't have been brought into the discussion since there is no point really comparing heavenly's ai to halo's or vice versa games are way too different. I don't like heavenly Swords ai though I hope it was just due to whatever level the game was set at.

In reply to

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

October 20th 2007 (A good day)

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of the greatest books ever.

pssh! more like electronic gay-ming monthly! amirite

Ronsauce

Since 6794 Days

Posted by Optimusv2

Its straight gameplay according to bungie.

http://www.bungie.net/images/Games/Halo3/Screensho... Sure they likely touched up the AA, but I believe thats ingame.

Umm...in my opinion, if that level of AA isn't in the game as we'll be playing it, then it is indeed a bullshot. That said, I was content with how the beta looked; I was honestly having too much fun raping people(or getting frustrated by getting raped) to notice potential jaggies.

In reply to

GriftGFX

Since 6809 Days

If Halo 3 is the last traditional Halo game--I think they should consider making "Halo: Arena" next. All MP, screw the haters!

And are people really arguing about anti-aliasing, or even the visuals in general? If people expected the bestest looking "this-gen" game ever, then maybe your expectations weren't based in reality. It looks solid, for what it is. I'd worry more about stuff like BXR than I would the graphics engine at this point.

It is what it is.

In reply to

Optimusv2

Since 6701 Days

They said in the podcast that bxr was fixed.

This probably wont be popular, but I think an all mp game would kill halo in the shadowrun sense.

They need to keep their story driven halo games going or atleast branch out in a new area.

In reply to

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

October 20th 2007 (A good day)

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of the greatest books ever.

pssh! more like electronic gay-ming monthly! amirite

GriftGFX

Since 6809 Days

Posted by Optimusv2

This probably wont be popular, but I think an all mp game would kill halo in the shadowrun sense.

It's not that it won't be popular, you're just wrong, that's all. An all MP Halo game would sell like crazy. There's a very big and very well established audience for Halo that relies almost entirely on the MP portion of the game. If Halo didn't have MP--it would kill the games success.

In reply to

Acert93

Since 6780 Days

Posted by Optimusv2

They need to keep their story driven halo games going or atleast branch out in a new area.

Halo Wars.

And I agree with Grift, a MP themed Halo spin off would be great. A RTS-FPS hybrid would be perfect IMO, with a lot of variant game dynamics. Basically an all in one MP experience.

In reply to

The fans have spoken. Concerning the graphics of the Halo 3 Beta: "There's so many little effects and things going on that make this game pretty much 2nd only to Gears at the moment."

arcaNe

Since 6168 Days

I t

Posted by Optimusv2

eh... thats the last game they should be taking pointers from. Sure it looks great in a number of areas, but that AI is disgusting I think. Would we want Heavenly's Animation in Halo 3, along with the bad AI too?

I think the AI is very good in Halo. I was only referring to how the AI controls the animation, not gameplay decisions. Demian Islas, the lead AI programmer for Bungie was talking about how there hadn't been any advances in the way AI can handle animation and like Acert posted there are many games that are taking advantage of a more advanced animation system.

Obviously Halo's AI is much better than Heavenly Swords, but not when it comes to controlling animation. The enemies movements based upon what the player is doing is much more fluid and realistic. It doesn't have the jerkiness that Halo seems to have. All I'm trying to say is that the programmer was trying to make an excuss as to why Halo's animation doesn't behave as well as they would like, even though there are other games that seem to be doing a pretty good job of it.

And I'm not trying to flame Halo 3 because I'm really a huge fan of the series. I've read all of the books except for Ghosts of the Onyx(going to wait until just before Sep. 25th to pump myself up). I love the art direction, story, characters, and I can't wait to see some of these epic battles they keep talking about. And I know that the AI will be doing some of the coolest stuff to take me down.

In reply to

I t[quote=Optimusv2]

eh... thats the last game they should be taking pointers from.  Sure it looks great in a number of areas, but that AI is disgusting I think.  Would we want Heavenly's Animation in Halo 3, along with the bad AI too?
[/quote]

I think the AI is very good in Halo.  I was only referring to how the AI controls the animation, not   gameplay decisions.  Demian Islas, the lead AI programmer for Bungie was talking about how there hadn't been any advances in the way AI can handle animation and like Acert posted there are many games that are taking advantage of a more advanced animation system.

Obviously Halo's AI is much better than Heavenly Swords, but not when it comes to controlling animation.  The enemies movements based upon what the player is doing is much more fluid and realistic.  It doesn't have the jerkiness that Halo seems to have.  All I'm trying to say is that the programmer was trying to make an excuss as to why Halo's animation doesn't behave as well as they would like, even though there are other games that seem to be doing a pretty good job of it.

And I'm not trying to flame Halo 3 because I'm really a huge fan of the series.  I've read all of the books except for Ghosts of the Onyx(going to wait until just before Sep. 25th to pump myself up).  I love the art direction, story, characters, and I can't wait to see some of these epic battles they keep talking about.  And I know that the AI will be doing some of the coolest  stuff to take me down.

Optimusv2

Since 6701 Days

Posted by GriftGFX

It's not that it won't be popular, you're just wrong, that's all. An all MP Halo game would sell like crazy. There's a very big and very well established audience for Halo that relies almost entirely on the MP portion of the game. If Halo didn't have MP--it would kill the games success.

Nope sorry I think you're the one thats wrong here. Say whatever you want, but I think Halo would be just another random shooter that isn't much of anything special without the amazing singleplayer experience that has made it such a popular franchise. The multiplayer has been a runaway success as a direct result of the awesome singleplayer universe that was used to pull people in.

You want to see a Halo game flop? A multiplayer only version of it would probably be just that. It isn't quake and it isn't unreal. I don't think it would fare too well in the mp only arena. Shadowrun is as big a flop as it is BECAUSE it was an mp only shooter title.

The best chance of success a MP only Halo would probably have is on the PC, but compared to what could've been with an epic singleplayer story to compliment it it would pretty much be as good as a flop.

In reply to

[quote=GriftGFX]

It's not that it won't be popular, you're just wrong, that's all.  An all MP Halo game would sell like crazy.  There's a [i]very big[/i] and very well established audience for Halo that relies almost entirely on the MP portion of the game.  If Halo didn't have MP--it would kill the games success.[/quote]

Nope sorry I think you're the one thats wrong here.  Say whatever you want, but I think Halo would be just another random shooter that isn't much of anything special without the amazing singleplayer experience that has made it such a popular franchise.  The multiplayer has been a runaway success as a direct result of the awesome singleplayer universe that was used to pull people in.

You want to see a Halo game flop?  A multiplayer only version of it would probably be just that.  It isn't quake and it isn't unreal.  I don't think it would fare too well in the mp only arena.  Shadowrun is as big a flop as it is BECAUSE it was an mp only shooter title.

The best chance of success a MP only Halo would probably have is on the PC, but compared to what could've been with an epic singleplayer story to compliment it it would pretty much be as good as a flop.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

October 20th 2007 (A good day)

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of the greatest books ever.

pssh! more like electronic gay-ming monthly! amirite

GriftGFX

Since 6809 Days

I honestly can't believe you're comparing Halo to Shadowrun.

Wow!

Halo's MP success has almost nothing to do with its campaign. Nothing.

It actually is, in many ways, quite a bit like the console worlds UT.

Shadowrun was a flop because it was a MP only shooter that lacked features, had some serious execution issues, and used a license that a small portion of the 360 audience even cares about--and the ones who do--weren't looking for an FPS game at all. Give me a break. There's NO connection there. None.

Just because you wouldn't buy it, doesn't mean it would flop. It would be a runaway success.

In reply to

Phaethon360

Since 6655 Days

What?

Halo 2 didn't outsell Halo 1 just because of the singleplayer, or become the most played game because of its story. It was the MULTIPLAYER. A few months after Halo 3 launches, it'll practically be an online only game anyway.

In reply to

Phaethon, the forum Spectre.

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