2008-11-07 22:16:15 LittleBigPlanet

Diety of game releases isn't without a sense of sadism, putting Gears of War 2 and LittleBigPlanet on the same day in europe. Weaker minded individuals might try to play these two AT THE SAME TIME BY SOMEHOW TRAINING THEIR FEET TO DO HAND STUFF, but others, including me, have probably given each game a certain amount of time this evening.

I'm thrilled to be playing Gears 2 in a couple of hours. Ever since the E3 presentation I've been surprisingly excited about the game in fact, and it's kind of funny how we've had a bunch of games trying to emulate its cover system and none of them truly succeeding. In a bit I'll return to the franchise that got it right the first time, only to deliver even more rightyness this time with essentially every single one of my gripes with the first game addressed.

BUT! (big but, capital letters and everything) this thread is about LittleBigPlanet. I cannot even begin to explain how fucking GOTY this game is for me. GOT-Decade I would like to be able to say for effect, but that would be a lie obviously.

No but seriously, I play this and I sometimes just stop controlling everything, lean back in amazement and think "this game came out of the games market *today*, I can't fucking believe it." And I barely can! It's so full of charm and love and energy and relentless creativity. And generosity with that creativity! At every turn giving you the chance to build on ideas sparked by the things the devs have implemented.

Just applying whatever items you find to your Sackboy is so immediate and flexible, you can just stick it on there the second you find it. No cocking about in menus or anything means that the single player journey is about accumulation in the most dynamic and satisfying way. I say single player but it's obviously all playable for up to four players on or offline.

I was in the beta so I've already done a ton of the creation stuff. I was hoping I'd be able to access those things now but I can't. Anyway, expect levels and vehicles and all sorts of crazy stuff from me in the coming weeks.

And that's sort of also the reason I made this thread. I wanna connect with all of you who have the game, whether you make stuff in it or not.

2008-11-08 00:00:42

I'm sorry I'm kinda new to the whole concept this game offers. But I understand it's all about building your own game and it basically comes down to creativity and simple platforming fun for 1-4 players? Is there a goal in the game, like reaching the end of the level or being the fastest or being the best or creating the best level?

Please indulge me....

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"Let me explain something to you. Um, I am not "Mr. Lebowski". You're Mr. Lebowski. I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing. "

2008-11-08 13:25:22

Well, let's break it into three parts.

At its heart, LBP is a platformer. You run on a 2D plane with three layers of "depth" so to speak, so that a box can sit in front of a bigger box in front of an even bigger box and you can jump "into" the picture to eventually end up on the biggest one. This is handled automatically though so there's not a lot of steering the character into/out of the level apart from holding downwards when jumping down from, for example, said boxes. You can also grab on to "grabbable material" with the R1 button. This means you can drag stuff, push stuff, pull stuff, swing/hang from stuff, et cetera.

The story mode of LBP consists of about 80 levels where you complete all manners of different tasks within that framework. Some levels just has you getting from point A to point B, but many involve clever quirks like the one with the dog you have to let through gates and help over obstacles because he's your only source of light. But in order to explain things further I'll have to hop over to the next "part":

LBP is also very much an editor all the while it's a platformer. Pressing the square button brings up a "popit" menu, similar to a speech bubble attached to your character which doesn't pause the game. From here you can access stickers/objects you've obtained in the game and you can plaster them over any surface, even your character. You also have customization for your character in here, and you can apply any of the plethora of items and accessories you've found and combine them with pasting your face/items with colour/motifs using the sticker option. This also means that some hidden items reveal themselves by pasting the right sticker on featureless objects in the background. This is by no means a main objective, but it illustrates how the game sometimes incorporates the editor in specific places for secret goodies.

And this leads into the third part, the creator mode, or the "My Moon" portion of the game. Although the popit menu is always available from within the main game, the My Moon mode adds truckloads of extra options because here you build your own levels/contraptions/puzzles/experiments/bits of interactive art/whatever. The fast track way to describing this mode is to say "The Incredible Machine 2008", but if TIM doesn't ring any bells for you it's essentially this;

You can make ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING in this mode. You've got access to essentially every thinkable material with apropriate weight/physics, you can use a simple geometry based brush to "paint" with materials and cut out/subtract from them to create different shapes. You can attach other objects to that one by gluing them on or bolting them on - which in turn lets you create wheels or legs or wings or anything. You can attach pistons or springs or wheels, etc, which you also can carve out of anything, not restricting you to a set number of predefined ones. You can modify the behavior of said things and attach different types of triggers/switches based on interaction or proximity and so on.

I could really go ON AND ON AND ON, and trust me when I say you can make pretty much ANYTHING. You wanna make a four player controlled mech thingy that shoots missiles? You just gotta figure out how to make it work because the game will set you up with the tools. You wanna make an epic adventure with crazy characters and challenging puzzles, platforming bits, crazy vehicle sections? Do it. Just do a search on Youtube and see what people have been coming up with. There's a Tetris level that's just incredibly Tetris like, although I sort of admire the original ideas more.

Really, there's no end to explaining what you can do here and what this game "is about" because you decide what it's about yourself. Everything is playable with four players and sending your creations to friends or uploading them for anyone to play/experience is super easy. You can make a crazy vehicle, take a snapshot of it and just chuck it your friends' way and they'll play with it seconds later.

Your question about the goal in the game is pretty much impossible to answer, because that too is largely up to the one making the level.

Anyway, I hope that shines some light on the matter for you. It can be a daunting game if you think of it as merely a level creator - even though its infinitely more simple to make things than you'd think - and just experiencing the platforming of the story mode and playing other people's levels is really well worth it on its own. You essentially just select "cool levels" from the menu and you get a simple seach engine and a planet like map of uploaded levels. From there you can play and easily rate anyone's levels, aswell as of course search for author, level name, or just based on criteria attached by other players. It's addictive in its own right to just check out how wild some people have gone with the creator, and often they really just make you smile.

Gah, must stop talking now. I hope this helped a bit mate!

2008-11-08 13:38:19

That was a great explanation man! Thanks :-)
What I have seen/heard so far have really interested me. Graphics look great and the music is just amazing!

The only thing that I'm missing, that for me is a important part of games (although not all games have it) is competitiveness (is that a word? :-) )
Now I know some games don't have that and I will still enjoy them, but so far this game seems more a "gimmick" than a game. Though I can see where the fun comes from in this game.

But I'm kind of missing something... Maybe I'll see if one of my mates gets this game so I can have a look :D

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"Let me explain something to you. Um, I am not "Mr. Lebowski". You're Mr. Lebowski. I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing. "

2008-11-08 13:41:44

Well, the game does have a points combo system with multipliers and you can clock stuff, so it's really up to you if you wanna make something competitive. All scores are uploaded to leaderboards you can filter to just friends if you want.

I sort of still get what you mean though, because the game on a whole doesn't neccessarily encourage competing so much. I mean the constant leaderboards do, but it's also a game where "moving on" seems to be very much its spirit. Seeing new things, experiencing new things like.

I admit to replaying the user created Mirror's Edge level a couple of times to see how fast I could do it though. :D

2008-11-08 14:23:21

I am dying to try this game out but a PS3, I simply cant afford right now.

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BUY: TRU, POP4, FC2, TLR, GoW2

RENT: SH5, MEdge, VP2, BK3, NarutoBB, SCVI, GAxe, Fable2

2009: FF13, SC5, AW, RE5, Im Alive, Cry On, SO4, BG&E2, Bayonetta, Doom 4, LoShadow, SF4, Ninja Blade, ToV, N3-2

2008-11-08 23:26:19

If you create a Jet Set Radio level Simon I'll send you a cookie.

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“You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.”-- Harvey Dent

2008-11-11 22:45:52

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4IU6UiWNAA

Which ass clown LBP Mod thought it would be a good idea to remove one of the few good Batman levels out there? You're supposed to remove the shitty ones you Palin's. Argh...

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“You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.”-- Harvey Dent

2008-11-12 11:23:19

http://kotaku.com/5081159/lbp-levels-getting-moder...

More and more stuff is apparently getting deleted.

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"Let me explain something to you. Um, I am not "Mr. Lebowski". You're Mr. Lebowski. I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing. "

2008-11-12 14:01:34

Are these levels being deleted from the online servers or are they just destroyed from existence completely?

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Strange memories on this nervous night in Las Vegas. Has it been five years? Six? It seems like a lifetime.

2008-11-12 18:24:12 In reply to TheBeagle (2008-11-12 14:01:34)

destroyed completely apparently (obviously they cant do that if your offline)

workaround...copy a creation to a second spot on your moon, that way the published version is removed, leaving your copy to be altered and re-published.

it was bound to happen tho. its copyright material afterall. hopefully it'll spark some genuine originality from users instead of just making *insert franchise name here* into a 2D platformer.

2008-11-12 19:52:46 In reply to KORNdog (2008-11-12 18:24:12)

That Batman level looked pretty amazing though...

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"Let me explain something to you. Um, I am not "Mr. Lebowski". You're Mr. Lebowski. I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing. "

2008-11-12 22:33:34

If I'd put as much effort and dedication as these guys had, making MORE of a reason for people to buy the game and a PS3 for it, and then they just delete my level, I'd be fucking livid. They have their own right to delete it off the server, but any further than that and its ludicrous. I mean really, what prompted this? The PC modding community has never had any difficulties, and nobody's car was deleted off Forza 2 unless it was offensive, and even then only off the SERVER.

I was planning on making a few creative levels that would likely infringe some copyright, but that definitely is out of the question now. No sale. Why does Sony have to shoot itself in the foot every time they start walking in the right direction?

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Don't you know who I am? I'm the goddamned Banman.

2008-11-13 00:47:51 In reply to Phaethon360 (2008-11-12 22:33:34)

its copyright infringment, it isnt something sony can just avoid. you just gotta hope some stuff gets through, or at the very least, developers/ the copyright holders dont bitch about it. as i said tho, if it pushes the people to create original content rather then "rip-offs" then its for the better.

2008-11-13 00:55:36 In reply to KORNdog (2008-11-13 00:47:51)

If it's not something that Sony can avoid then please explain Phaethon's other points, re:Forza, for example. Did Sony also force people not to play as Master Chief in UT3? Eh?

2008-11-13 01:32:11 In reply to GriftGFX (2008-11-13 00:55:36)

surely thats an issue with bungie, NOT sony. im pretty damn sure if bungie complained EPIC wouldnt have had any choice but to remove it. or maybe they wouldnt since UT3 wasnt heavily modded anyway. a level made of cocks probably wouldnt have been taken down from there.

MM however are trying to have a youtube like service. and while youtube has a crap load of copyright material on there. a lot of copyright materieal is removed on a daily basis. the fact is, youtube is just WAY too large to keep in check. LBP has only been out a few weeks. im sure when the amount of user created content exceeds a certain amount, the same will happen. stuff will slip by unnoticed and stuff will be removed. just like youtube.

2008-11-13 01:32:32 In reply to GriftGFX (2008-11-13 00:55:36)

"Eh?" is not a complete sentence.

2008-11-13 01:35:07 In reply to PlumbDrumb (2008-11-13 01:32:32)

Pwnt

Copyright Infringement I'm sure is very easy to get around when it's user created and not created by anyone like Sony or it's devs
It's as ridiculous as suing the Superhero MMO game devs/producers for making it able to recreate characters with likeness to Marvel heroes.

This game is about a freedom to create and inspire. Big brother is watching you though, apparently.
Fable 2 was about creating a character who is YOU and sharing it with others, that failed too.
Very similar in the way they have a major message but hurt it by doing shit like this

2008-11-13 01:40:34 In reply to Tinks (2008-11-13 01:35:07)

its slightly different being able to create a character with a slight resemblance to a marvel character, and using your Ps eye to take a photo of an ACTUAL marvel character and stick it directly into the game.

2008-11-13 01:43:03

It's still done by users
As long as that isn't done by the makers of the game, there really is NO case here at all

You can take photos of a lot of things and use software to implement them into your favorite games. The PC is rampant with this, character skins, stages, mods, etc.
It's really confusing why they would remove stages and creations because of something like this when lawsuits fail all the time and user created material (using other franchises) remains present in a lot of games

2008-11-13 03:32:42

^^ Yeah, I still don't get this argument at all. There's plenty of precedence set for exactly this sort of thing. See: Master Chief in UT3, or any number of other modifications made by users that include copyrights owned by third parties. This is user created content, there's almost no chance whatsoever that Sony could ever get in any sort of trouble for this. I'd love to hear some examples that might prove otherwise but I doubt there are any. User created content could contain exact reproductions of Mickey Mouse, and Disney couldn't do jack shit.

2008-11-13 10:22:19

I was always under the assumption that user created content can not infringe on copywrights since noone is making any profit from it. Any game to date that allows for modding of any sort has had levels and characters that either resembled copywrighted things or were just a complete copy of said material. I challenge someone to name one game that this wasn't the case.

There's a Jurassic Park level in CS, Homer Simpson in UT3, and other things like Forza has already been mentioned. The list can go on and on. Honestly I don't see what their problem with this is.

2008-11-13 18:25:33 In reply to GriftGFX (2008-11-13 03:32:42)

How about Napster? Or any one of a number of popular torrent sites that were forced to restrict access? Or Youtube? Providing access to copyrighted material makes them a target. That fact that most of the copyright holders don't know about or don't care enough to seek legal action or a cease and desist notice does not mean Sony and MM are protected from the law.

2008-11-13 23:03:27 In reply to Morgun (2008-11-13 18:25:33)

The difference between user created content and the things you're talking about is simple. User created content is just that...created by someone who plays the game as an imitation / homage to said properties. What you're talking about is completely different. The reason Napster and Youtube and the like had to worry about copywright infringement was because it WAS the actual copywrighted material, not just some random person's creation imitating that material. So yes...there is quite the difference.

Don't believe me? Go on Youtube right now and look up something simple like Mario Bros. or whatever. I bet you find tons of user made videos that are in no way infringing on any of Nintendo's copywrights.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p0Yap5iG6o

In fact, there's one right there. Mario level recreated in HL2 and posted on Youtube. I fail to see any way that Youtube or Valve could in any way shape or form be the target of any legal action from something like this, which is exactly what we're talking about with LBP.

2008-11-13 23:13:44 In reply to Heywood (2008-11-13 23:03:27)

Exactly, I don't think Youtube removed video's of people dressing up as batman or using Lego to make a stop-motion mario movie. They deleted the copied content, ie: stand up comedian shows, movies, etc.

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"Though I walk through the valley of death I will fear no evil, for I am the evilest motherf*cker in the valley"