Bungie and Microsoft: What the Hell is Going On?

Since 6984 Days

@ deft: MS owns the Halo IP it appears.

Microsoft will retain an equity interest in Bungie, at the same time continuing its long-standing publishing agreement between Microsoft Game Studios and Bungie for the Microsoft-owned "Halo" intellectual property, as well as other future properties developed by Bungie.

If this deal is mainly a way for Bungie to rake in a fair share of the profits while MS retains a large % in Bungie and Halo is MS's and new Bungie IPs will be published by MGS then not necessarily a bad deal depending on the specifics.

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My Blog: http://www.NextGenThinkTank.com

Optimusv2

Since 6905 Days

Posted by Acert93

@ deft: MS owns the Halo IP it appears.

Microsoft will retain an equity interest in Bungie, at the same time continuing its long-standing publishing agreement between Microsoft Game Studios and Bungie for the Microsoft-owned "Halo" intellectual property, as well as other future properties developed by Bungie.

If this deal is mainly a way for Bungie to rake in a fair share of the profits while MS retains a large % in Bungie and Halo is MS's and new Bungie IPs will be published by MGS then not necessarily a bad deal depending on the specifics.

Yea this looks pretty good. Acert think for a second Bungie as their own entity being publically traded on the stock market with the kind of sales their games pull in? We could be looking at one beast of a stock here that microsoft has a large invested stake in. This is an amazing move from a strategic standpoint. The entirety of Microsoft's Home and Entertainment division can no longer bring down Bungie as they are no longer inside Microsoft they are their own company.

What better way to make your stock look attractive than to go public right as all these incredible Halo 3 sales are set to come in? November hasn't even come yet. Still plenty of time left to go in this holiday season. This is extremely smart I think.

In reply to

[quote=Acert93]@ deft: MS owns the Halo IP it appears.

[quote]Microsoft will retain an equity interest in Bungie, at the same time continuing its long-standing publishing agreement between Microsoft Game Studios and Bungie for the Microsoft-owned "Halo" intellectual property, as well as other future properties developed by Bungie.[/quote]

If this deal is mainly a way for Bungie to rake in a fair share of the profits while MS retains a large % in Bungie and Halo is MS's and new Bungie IPs will be published by MGS then not necessarily a bad deal depending on the specifics.[/quote]

Yea this looks pretty good.  Acert think for a second Bungie as their own entity being publically traded on the stock market with the kind of sales their games pull in?  We could be looking at one beast of a stock here that microsoft has a large invested stake in.  This is an amazing move from a strategic standpoint.  The entirety of Microsoft's Home and Entertainment division can no longer bring down Bungie as they are no longer inside Microsoft they are their own company.

What better way to make your stock look attractive than to go public right as all these incredible Halo 3 sales are set to come in?  November hasn't even come yet.  Still plenty of time left to go in this holiday season.  This is extremely smart I think.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

October 20th 2007 (A good day)

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of the greatest books ever.

pssh! more like electronic gay-ming monthly! amirite

GriftGFX

Since 7013 Days

Weird. So long as Halo 3 gets continued support, I don't really care. I have a very short term outlook on this whole thing. Bungie going multiplatform? Strange.. but hey at least they keep Oni! Good news for MS or not, it's certainly good news for bungie.. so kudos for them for being one of the VERY few companies to ever establish themselves as an independent developer after being acquired by Microsoft. I think every developer should be so lucky to be independent and still have such a close relationship with a large publisher.

Go bungie.

In reply to

Optimusv2

Since 6905 Days

It seems Microsoft is always guaranteed a title and due to their large stake in bungie would get a cut of even benefit financially from other consoles. I'd go as far as to say this situation is even better than the previous deal they had with bungie :)

In reply to

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

October 20th 2007 (A good day)

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of the greatest books ever.

pssh! more like electronic gay-ming monthly! amirite

LEBATO

Since 7135 Days

Well, it is kind of sad, but............they just have to keep on bringing more AAA exclusives.

Who's going to develop another AAA racing game exclusively aside from Turn 10? THQ has decided to milk the MotoGP franchise from Climax, to a point of making it an unnecessary and very rehashed yearly title. MGS lost the unbelievable Rallisport a long time ago. MGS just lost BC as a developer for PGR, now they have to find someone to do it, and this is going to be a hard one, I just can't think of any other developer fit for the job (DICE is taken, sorry). Being a racing games fan, I have really nothing to look forward for in 2008, perhaps Codemasters will announce something (and hopefully it doesn't suck), but there's nothing exclusive on schedule.

Halo will still be exclusive though, so that's some sort of relief. Though I don't see Bungie making another Halo for a LONG time. The point is they want to make something else, it would be awkward if the first game they make as an independent developer is a Halo.

Like deftangel said, it seems like MS likes to buy out exclusives from independent developers. Gears did alright(!), Mass Effect you can tell will do alright, and another obvious one is Ninja Gaiden 2 published by MS, perhaps they have more deals in development right now for some huge games--who knows.

BTW, kind off topic but still a question left unanswered.

* Did we ever got to know who owns the IP for Rallisport Challenge?

In reply to

Well, it is kind of sad, but............they just have to keep on bringing more AAA exclusives.

Who's going to develop another AAA racing game exclusively aside from Turn 10?  THQ has decided to milk the MotoGP franchise from Climax, to a point of making it an unnecessary and very rehashed yearly title.  MGS lost the unbelievable Rallisport a long time ago.  MGS just lost BC as a developer for PGR, now they have to find someone to do it, and this is going to be a hard one, I just can't think of any other developer fit for the job (DICE is taken, sorry).  Being a racing games fan, I have really nothing to look forward for in 2008, perhaps Codemasters will announce something (and hopefully it doesn't suck), but there's nothing exclusive on schedule.

Halo will still be exclusive though, so that's some sort of relief.  Though I don't see Bungie making another Halo for a LONG time.  The point is they want to make something else, it would be awkward if the first game they make as an independent developer is a Halo.

Like deftangel said, it seems like MS likes to buy out exclusives from independent developers.  Gears did alright(!), Mass Effect you can tell will do alright, and another obvious one is Ninja Gaiden 2 published by MS, perhaps they have more deals in development right now for some huge games--who knows.

BTW, kind off topic but still a question left unanswered.

* Did we ever got to know who owns the IP for Rallisport Challenge?

Nothing more rude than trying to be the internet diplomat and abusing of power.

LEBATO

Since 7135 Days

Posted by Optimusv2

It seems Microsoft is always guaranteed a title and due to their large stake in bungie would get a cut of even benefit financially from other consoles. I'd go as far as to say this situation is even better than the previous deal they had with bungie :)

Yeah, Halo will stay exclusive, and any other game developed by Bungie COULD be Multiplatform, but ALWAYS on the 360. Plus MS gets royalties from the sales of the games on PS3 and Wii as an example.

In reply to

Nothing more rude than trying to be the internet diplomat and abusing of power.

Jollipop

Since 6896 Days

I this comes down to the fact that MS wouldn't let them make other games besides Halo.

I wouldn't expect bungies next new IP to be an FPS.

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Marumaro for the WIN !!

GriftGFX

Since 7013 Days

Posted by Jollipop

I this comes down to the fact that MS wouldn't let them make other games besides Halo.

I wouldn't expect bungies next new IP to be an FPS.

I doubt it's really all that simple.. this is a business decision on MS's behalf. Bungie didn't just up and part ways with Microsoft on their own, MS had to approve of every step in this process.

In reply to

Jollipop

Since 6896 Days

Of course its never as simple as this, but im sure it had something to do with it.

I also dont' think it's quite as simple as an MS business decision, they were probably forced into a situation where they had no other choice other than to lose Bungie completely.

If MS were giving a 3rd party company like Epic such a hard time over the content and release dates of Gears, you can only imagine how much worse it could have been for Bungie.

In reply to

Marumaro for the WIN !!

roxwell

Since 6961 Days

Ok i've lost track here :/

So do MS have first refusal on any Bungie game or not?

And if so, would bungie go to the trouble of coding something that takes advantage of another systems hardware when it may not even get on it?

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Back, sack and crack

Optimusv2

Since 6905 Days

Posted by roxwell

Ok i've lost track here :/

So do MS have first refusal on any Bungie game or not?

And if so, would bungie go to the trouble of coding something that takes advantage of another systems hardware when it may not even get on it?

For the most part yes they do. Practically nothing changes between Microsoft and Bungie. Bungie will still develop not only halo games, but new ips for the Xbox 360 as their primary platform and will continue future new game relationships with Microsoft Game Studios. They could venture into multiplatform development if they feel like it, but even that would benefit Microsoft since they own a large part in microsoft and as such would benefit from the sales.

But judging from what bungie has said it seems they want to continue with Microsoft publishing their games so then I would say no other console versions as a result. Win win situation for Microsoft on all counts and the any fear of multiplatform titles is a total non issue for Microsoft at this point. Bungie is smart enough to realize where they have the biggest fanbase. Who wouldn't want to test their new IP on the safest possible audience? An audience that has already proven solid support for their games and their love for Halo. If Bungie wants their new IP to be any sort of success they know the smartest place for it is on a Microsoft console where all their supporters are, but nothing can stop them from seeking new supporters if they want, but whatever they decide to do benefits Microsoft still.

Future Bungie New IPs are guaranteed to Microsoft in essense not out of contractual obligation, but out of the great relationship Bungie has with Microsoft. An act of good faith or showing of appreciation if you will. So technically microsoft has first refusal, but not because of any contractual obligation it seems.

In reply to

[quote=roxwell]Ok i've lost track here :/

So do MS have first refusal on any Bungie game or not?

And if so, would bungie go to the trouble of coding something that takes advantage of another systems hardware when it may not even get on it?[/quote]

For the most part yes they do.  Practically nothing changes between Microsoft and Bungie.  Bungie will still develop not only halo games, but new ips for the Xbox 360 as their primary platform and will continue future new game relationships with Microsoft Game Studios.  They could venture into multiplatform development if they feel like it, but even that would benefit Microsoft since they own a large part in microsoft and as such would benefit from the sales.

But judging from what bungie has said it seems they want to continue with Microsoft publishing their games so then I would say no other console versions as a result.  Win win situation for Microsoft on all counts and the any fear of multiplatform titles is a total non issue for Microsoft at this point.  Bungie is smart enough to realize where they have the biggest fanbase.  Who wouldn't want to test their new IP on the safest possible audience?  An audience that has already proven solid support for their games and their love for Halo.  If Bungie wants their new IP to be any sort of success they know the smartest place for it is on a Microsoft console where all their supporters are, but nothing can stop them from seeking new supporters if they want, but whatever they decide to do benefits Microsoft still.

Future Bungie New IPs are guaranteed to Microsoft in essense not out of contractual obligation, but out of the great relationship Bungie has with Microsoft.  An act of good faith or showing of appreciation if you will.  So technically microsoft has first refusal, but not because of any contractual obligation it seems.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

October 20th 2007 (A good day)

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of the greatest books ever.

pssh! more like electronic gay-ming monthly! amirite

Jollipop

Since 6896 Days

Posted by roxwell

Ok i've lost track here :/

So do MS have first refusal on any Bungie game or not?

And if so, would bungie go to the trouble of coding something that takes advantage of another systems hardware when it may not even get on it?

Well first refusal and even then the game still needs to appear on the 360, at least from what i understand.

I guess their next engine will multiplatform, or perhaps they will use middlewear.

In reply to

Marumaro for the WIN !!

roxwell

Since 6961 Days

Thanks guys.

But i'm now more confused then ever :D

In reply to

Back, sack and crack

Optimusv2

Since 6905 Days

Posted by roxwell

Thanks guys.

But i'm now more confused then ever :D

That is probably my fault lol.

In conclusion, Bungie likes Microsoft, Microsoft likes Bungie. They agreed to give eachother more space and freedom, but they are still dating and intend to continue dating in the future. They also intend to have more babies together like their boy Master Chief who is now headed off to college.

In reply to

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

October 20th 2007 (A good day)

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of the greatest books ever.

pssh! more like electronic gay-ming monthly! amirite

deftangel

Since 6881 Days

There are a lot of people making assumptions in this thread about how good this deal is for Microsoft based on details which they DON'T KNOW.

Nobody knows what's in Bungie's pipeline, who owns any non-Halo IP, first refusal rights, the size of their equity stake etc.

Also if you think MGS will actually publish games on the Wii or the PS3 whilst the 360 is a viable platform then you've started your weekend drinking a bit early!

This is a GREAT deal for Bungie, right now it's not possible to say anything more than perhaps it's not as bad for MS as it might have initially appeared. I fail to see how MS are in any stronger a position than yesterday. So far this year MS have opted to not secure Bizarre and re-negotiated terms with Bungie. That is their two most consistent top-title developers right there. It doesn't give me that much confidence in MGS' management of the situation if Bungie felt they didn't see a future under their management.

I've no doubt Bungie will develop Xbox exclusive titles in the mid-term and obviously they will return to the Halo franchise at some point. However; Bungie will now do what Bungie want to do, not what MGS might need their numero uno developer to be doing.

Given some of their decision making that might not be a bad thing!

In reply to

There are a lot of people making assumptions in this thread about how good this deal is for Microsoft based on details which they DON'T KNOW.

Nobody knows what's in Bungie's pipeline, who owns any non-Halo IP, first refusal rights, the size of their equity stake etc.

Also if you think MGS will actually publish games on the Wii or the PS3 whilst the 360 is a viable platform then you've started your weekend drinking a bit early!

This is a GREAT deal for Bungie, right now it's not possible to say anything more than perhaps it's not as bad for MS as it might have initially appeared. I fail to see how MS are in any stronger a position than yesterday. So far this year MS have opted to not secure Bizarre and re-negotiated terms with Bungie. That is their two most consistent top-title developers right there. It doesn't give me that much confidence in MGS' management of the situation if Bungie felt they didn't see a future under their management.

I've no doubt Bungie will develop Xbox exclusive titles in the mid-term and obviously they will return to the Halo franchise at some point. However; Bungie will now do what Bungie want to do, not what MGS might need their numero uno developer to be doing.

Given some of their decision making that might not be a bad thing!

XBL/PSN: deftangel. Views are my own and not representative of my employers. Boulets aren't the end of the world, you will get over them! Reading and constructive discussion classes are available, enquire via PM :)

roxwell

Since 6961 Days

I see, but Bungie may slip off every now and again for some heavy petting with the fitness trainer, the tart.

Ok, i'm up to speed :)

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Back, sack and crack

ManThatYouFear

Since 6956 Days

yey new games apart from halo ...now to find out if they really do suck ass and fluked it all :D

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My comments on this game/machine been good or bad does not mean i like/hate the machine i am not a fan nor a hater, just i have a opinion and wish to share it.

Optimusv2

Since 6905 Days

Well deft at this point I don't think it matters who owns the Halo IP and I can't see Microsoft would be stupid enough to put themselves in a position where they wouldn't hold on to that franchise in some fashion.

Bungie has said they will continue a long term relationship with microsoft be that halo or beyond that game. They stated their primary platform will be a Microsoft platform and what benefits Bungie as a developer will no doubt lead to them creating better games right? Which in turn helps Microsoft. It was a bit disorienting to imagine Microsoft losing Bungie, but I think this deal worked out fantastically for them based on what has been released by both sides.

For the record wasn't saying Microsoft would publish titles on ps3 or wii, but if Bungie did decide to do such a thing Microsoft who has a stake in Bungie would also benefit even from other consoles. It really is a win win.

In reply to

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

October 20th 2007 (A good day)

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of the greatest books ever.

pssh! more like electronic gay-ming monthly! amirite

gmulis

Since 6801 Days

lets see what they got now since their indepedent

In reply to

mess with the best die the like rest

LEBATO

Since 7135 Days

Also if you think MGS will actually publish games on the Wii or the PS3 whilst the 360 is a viable platform then you've started your weekend drinking a bit early!

Since I'm the only one to have mentioned the PS3 and Wii has having a chance to have Bungie games, I take it that's directed at me, and that's NOT what I said!

Bungie can make multiplatformers for other consoles, and they will be published by X publisher, yet MS will get royalties from that deal, and unless I read something wrong, that's a fact.

In reply to

Nothing more rude than trying to be the internet diplomat and abusing of power.

Optimusv2

Since 6905 Days

Posted by LEBATO

Also if you think MGS will actually publish games on the Wii or the PS3 whilst the 360 is a viable platform then you've started your weekend drinking a bit early!

Since I'm the only one to have mentioned the PS3 and Wii has having a chance to have Bungie games, I take it that's directed at me, and that's NOT what I said!

Bungie can make multiplatformers for other consoles, and they will be published by X publisher, yet MS will get royalties from that deal, and unless I read something wrong, that's a fact.

Yea thats exactly how I perceived the information as well. Bungie is obviously a developer Microsoft is confident in and they want to have a large stake in what they believe will be a successful company. Microsoft would pretty much benefit from any and all titles Bungie decides to develop as it comes with the territory of having part ownership.

In reply to

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

October 20th 2007 (A good day)

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of the greatest books ever.

pssh! more like electronic gay-ming monthly! amirite

INDIGO

Since 7715 Days

I just wanted to send a special shout out to a certain mod that was so certain this rumor was BS he wouldn't even let us speculate about it. (was that vague enough?)

And congrats to Bungie! B)

In reply to

oldgirlgotgame

Since 6258 Days

Word on the street in Seattle is that the Bungie founders were wildly unhappy with MS's mismanagement of their business, particularly in terms of employee compensation which was out of line with other game manufacturers. Apparently a dozen or so key people went up to MS management and cooked up this divestiture with a "our way or the highway" stance. Who knows what really went down.

There must have been a take-back clause in the original MS-Bungie acquisition; otherwise, from a business perspective, MS must have felt it wasn't seeing a return on the Bungie investment. There is NO WAY MS would let this franchise go if it was profitable, and MS people management philosophy is we can always hire someone else.

It will be interesting to see what the "equity investment" in Bungie will be; does it amount to a controlling interest, a split in revenue or something else? If/when Bungie develops for other platforms, will it take their eye off their core business and as a result another Halo 2 comes out because the hard work will be on something else that's cooler?

Regardless of talented the Halo crew is (and they are though I agree with the sentiment - was it deftangel or optimusv2?- that the story lines are lame-ish), the 114 or so Bungie employees who are now divesting themselves of their MS chains are in for an awakening regarding what it means to be independent. There was anguish within the Bungie troops about the lack of a proper launch celebration around the H3 launch. Um, hi Bungie guys, at 100+ employees, your days of $500,000 parties tooling around town in hired cars are over if you plan to make any money. Get used to the Costco sandwich tray and take a hit off a Red Hook keg. Odds are you'll be happier though.

In reply to

Word on the street in Seattle is that the Bungie founders were wildly unhappy with MS's mismanagement of their business, particularly in terms of employee compensation which was out of line with other game manufacturers. Apparently a dozen or so key people went up to MS management and cooked up this divestiture with a "our way or the highway" stance. Who knows what really went down.

There must have been a take-back clause in the original MS-Bungie acquisition; otherwise, from a business perspective, MS must have felt it wasn't seeing a return on the Bungie investment. There is NO WAY MS would let this franchise go if it was profitable, and MS people management philosophy is we can always hire someone else.

It will be interesting to see what the "equity investment" in Bungie will be; does it amount to a controlling interest, a split in revenue or something else? If/when Bungie develops for other platforms, will it take their eye off their core business and as a result another Halo 2 comes out because the hard work will be on something else that's cooler?

Regardless of talented the Halo crew is (and they are though I agree with the sentiment - was it deftangel or optimusv2?- that the story lines are lame-ish), the 114 or so Bungie employees who are now divesting themselves of their MS chains are in for an awakening regarding what it means to be independent. There was anguish within the Bungie troops about the lack of a proper launch celebration around the H3 launch. Um, hi Bungie guys, at 100+ employees, your days of $500,000 parties tooling around town in hired cars are over if you plan to make any money. Get used to the Costco sandwich tray and take a hit off a Red Hook keg. Odds are you'll be happier though.

Jollipop

Since 6896 Days

Nice first post :D

In reply to

Marumaro for the WIN !!

GriftGFX

Since 7013 Days

Posted by INDIGO

I just wanted to send a special shout out to a certain mod that was so certain this rumor was BS he wouldn't even let us speculate about it. (was that vague enough?)

And congrats to Bungie! B)

Yea I'm a horrible person.

and just for the record I lock very few threads and use even fewer boulets.. I'm surprised and I have a big helping of crow sitting in front of me.

There's a basis for *every* rumor now.

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