Oh my god, your still fucking spinning.

The act of getting in and out of cover is fine (the trigger system) it was fine in rainbow six vegas where it had its debut, and it is fine in conviction. My issue is the "move from cover to cover" automated button press mechanic. It's skill-less. Compare moving from cover to cover in say, gears and splinter cell. Gears you press A to get into cover, press A to jump over cover, move the analogue stick forward to move, hold A if you want to sprint, then press A to latch onto your second, destination peice of cover. Compare that to conviction. You hold the trigger to get into cover, and then press a button to move from where you are to where you want to be. No analog control, no jumping over cover. Its automatic. Over simplified tosh.

Yes, you can just not go into cover at all and crouch walk, but that isn't what we're discussing, we're discussing the cover system. Which is automated shite.

But ultimately, it's a moot issue. The issue is that the game shouldn't even have a cover system. Light and dark should be its cover system, not a world comprised of waist high walls. But please. Spin some more.

Ahh, but in this case it's 100% true. It isn't something you're forced to use in the slightest. It just looks cool and players find it convenient, so they use it.


And, Korn, this is pretty embarrassing. You sound like you honestly haven't played this game at all, and you seem to be proving it with each post.No.... you still go in and out of cover as you wish, and you do so WITHOUT the automatic transition animations. To have full analog control, you aren't somehow forced to not enter cover. Wrong, wrong, wrong.So... just about every fucking thing you can do in Splinter Cell Conviction. WOW.I can move left and right while in cover using the analog stick in Conviction. I can jump over cover in Conviction. And that latch onto your second destination piece of cover crap you say gears has, Splinter Cell Conviction has, too, and you press a button to do it as well. Please, it's beyond obvious now that you simply don't even know this game. Even the current gameplay video just posted showcases Sam jumping over cover. This isn't a new addition to Splinter Cell Blacklist. It was in Conviction, too.

Or maybe it's clear you're blinded by the boner you have for conviction? No, couldn't possibly be that. We all know you spin shit constantly to make out your correct. Not working this time...or in the MS 720 thread...or at all really. But carry on.

And yes, you CAN do those things, but that is NOT the way in which the developers intended for you to move from cover to cover and you fucking well know it. It's like saying you don't have to use the instinct mode in hitman absolution, despite the game being designed around it. If the devs didn't want you to use the automated cover transition mechanic, they wouldn't have put it in there and put so much effort into making it look so "pretty" (but lacking any sort of skill or timing)

Korndog, be honest. The reason your limping your way through this discussion right now is because you don't know anything about this game. You accuse me of spinning and you come back with a weak ass argument that's basically. "Well, the developers INTENDED for you to do it this way. Never mind the fact that you can do it just like it's been done in previous splinter cell games. The developers put in new features that they INTENDED people to use."

That's the best you have? Also, I'll admit that it's amusing being accused of spinning or bias from one of the most bias Sony loyalists on this forum. You literally don't like specific games based on the platforms they exist on, particularly if they are xbox exclusives. Deny it all you want, but I'm not the first to call you out on this. Yea, I'm known for being pretty stubbornly loyal to specific games, or just plain disagreeable on any number of things, but I don't invent reasons to hate on other franchises consistently because they aren't on my chosen console. You have no way of disputing the things that I have said, so the best fucking argument you have is that "Well, it's what the developers INTENDED for you to do." That's it!?

Quit now, you may be trying to give off the impression that you're winning this argument, but the more you go, the more you get exposed for literally making shit up about a game you seemingly have not played at all, or simply not played enough to know what you're talking about. For the last 3 or so exchanges, you have suggested things to not be possible in Conviction, and I have countered by proving you wrong with the facts. Am I wrong about what I say can be done in conviction? This isn't about personal preference. This is about the simple fact of what you can do from what can't do in Splinter Cell Conviction. You have said boldly that things could not be done. You were proven wrong, so now you're spinning with what the developers intended for you to do. What a joke.

And you acknowledge only that you CAN do those things AFTER you were proven wrong when you confidently said that I couldn't do those things. I might end the argument now, because I can't have you agreeing with me too much :P

Looks allot better than the previous vids, when is this game actually out?

August 20th, last I saw. Yep, it seems right.

Oh fuck off with the "you haven't played it" BS. Check my gamercard if you must (not going to do it for you cos i don't care enough) you talk SO MUCH SHIT its unbelievable. You know what, i know i'm right, and frankly thats all i care about at this stage. Conviction is a mess of a splinter cell game, your standards are clearly so low that you think otherwise (for someone who claims to counter arguments to everything i've said, i'm yet to see one countering the fact splinter cells only cover system should be the shadows)

I'm done, if it makes you feel better to consider this a "win" for you, then be my guest, i can't be arsed with you anymore.

I'm not saying they didn't intend for people to uses it. Hell, I'm sure they did, and I quite frankly love it. But fair is fair here, Grift. The guy has been saying things about the game that nobody who has played it enough could not know. He clearly didn't know these things until I told him. It was one thing when he said he didn't like the mechanic (that's fair), but it's another to claim that we can't do very basic things that we absolutely can. I can get through a whole level without using those transition animations that the devs put in there. We were never arguing over what devs intended for people to do. He simply changed the subject of our argument to that once he was proven wrong about what we were actually discussing. Rather than own up to the fact that he was mistaken, he tried to snake out of it.

Hold left trigger to enter cover, move left and right with analog stick to possibly survey more of your environment, take a look around etc. Then, depending on how low the cover is, or the situation, you can jump over it if you wish by pushing the analog stick forward, and then I believe pressing the action button. Or instead of jumping over cover, you now decide you want to move, you can leave cover while staying crouched and then crouch walk over to a new piece of cover, and then hold trigger again to take cover. He was actually arguing that you couldn't play this way, and I simply pointed out that he wasn't correct.*clears throat* Previous post:Checking your gamercard doesn't erase the fact that you were plain wrong in what you were saying wasn't possible in this game. I really don't care if you don't like Conviction. Plenty of people don't like conviction. But that doesn't mean I'm going to be quiet when someone is saying that basic elements of the gameplay somehow aren't possible. I haven't won anything, but the thread has probably lost, as we got away from the main point, but I'll be getting back on topic.

And what i was saying was that the cover system was automated. Which if you don't make things more difficult for yourself and use it as the developers INTENDED, it is. Moving from cover to cover in gears of war is practically brain surgery compared to conviction...if you use it as the developers intended.

Look at this way. There is nothing forcing you to use the cover system in gears of war. You could just stand behind cover and peak out, but we all know that is not the way the developers intended it to be done. You're trying to explain away simplification, accessibility, hand-holding...You are more accepting of those things and dumbing down of franchises. Good for you. But that's just bad design as far as i'm concerned. And it's clearly still present in blacklist. It's like if they changed the split jump from a skill based, timing based player controlled action, to a automated, context sensitive action. I wouldn't want that either. That's essentially what they've done in regards to cover.

Accessibility is killing a ton of game franchises. And splinter cell was just an early victim of it. It's one thing to accept that dumbing down. It's another to pretend it isn't even there. You are doing the latter, and not only that, your acting like it's GAINED depth in the process. As i keep saying. King spinner.

As I said before, our initial disagreement that is well document already in this thread wasn't over what the developers intended. You changed the subject of our discussion after you were proven wrong and because you didn't want to admit that you were wrong. Our discussion was about you saying that players were forced to do things a certain way and that they couldn't do them just as effectively the old fashion way. I merely pointed out that what you were saying wasn't true and gave reasons for why. You simply did not know enough about Splinter Cell Conviction, hence why you were so far off about basic gameplay elements.

I'm not telling you to suddenly agree with me and love Splinter Cell Conviction, but when someone points out that I'm mistaken about the way something works in a game, I simply accept that I was wrong and move on. If I have a personal opinion, almost nobody gets me to change that opinion, but we aren't arguing opinion here, we were arguing about what is possible from what isn't possible.Wrong. You actually thought that using analog control the whole way through meant having to not enter cover as a consequence...Wrong.It works exactly the same way in Splinter Cell Conviction, you just use different buttons. I can manually sprint my way into cover just fine. I can jump over cover just fine. I can press a button to manually enter and exit cover just fine. You're trying to make it sound like Conviction has no manual analog stick or manual button control when entering and exiting cover, when in fact it does.All you. All wrong. Picture below of the controller layout showing the cover button you were saying did not exist. I didn't get you to admit that there was a manual method to enter cover until you were proven wrong.

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad259/dunderdaw...

I'm not spinning the cover transition animations as somehow bad. I love them. Whether I like them and you hate them wasn't the discussion. Whether it was or was not the developers intention for people to use it wasn't what I was disagreeing with you about. I was disagreeing with your factually inaccurate statements regarding what's possible with Conviction's gameplay mechanics. You don't have to say you were wrong. Your posts already prove that. And with this, I'm truly done with THIS discussion. If I comment again at all, it will be about Blacklist.

Thanks.

I feared how this one would turn out, because I really did get surprised by how good I felt the last game was. I still consider it my biggest surprise of this generation. Never thought it would be as good as it turned out. I thought that whole story angle they had going on with Sam worked to the game's benefit and with the changes made, but things surely weren't going to be quite that way again, so I wondered where they would take it after Conviction. I felt that Conviction as it was made sense and only that game could get away with some of the things that weren't included. This one would obviously have no excuse not to have a good deal of that stuff back while expanding on the new things Conviction did and that I thought were really well done.

I look at Convictions additions and the ones being expanded on in this game as options for the player. You can pull that new in motion mark and execute thing if you want to, but they've proven that you don't have to. You can mark and execute up to 4 people if you wish with a p228, or you don't need to mark and execute anybody, and instead just sneak past them. Or you can execute just one guy to see how the other guys react, to really take advantage of the changes to the gameplay. I like that I'm able to approach the different levels in different and expanded ways. Stealth after detection is a thing that actually exists in full force now in splinter cell, whereas sometimes if you were detected in past games you were screwed. And that's surely true in parts of even Conviction, too, but that last known position mechanic, once you really learn how to take advantage of it, it's awesome seeing how the game plays out as the AI really believes you are somewhere in the vicinity of where they last saw you. It's mostly in these circumstances that the cool transition cover animations come in handy. They allow you to quickly and in the most efficient way possible alter your last known position and create all sorts of dynamic gameplay situations. Not everybody is a fan and I understand that, but I really enjoy the changes.

Haha, damn you! I knew I shouldn't have said anything :P I just felt it worked well in the context of the game. And, I'll go ahead and give a spoiler since people likely already played Conviction or are just generally not interested.

**Spoiler Alert**

I like the amount of risks that they took with the game. That Iraq level, as hard as that shit was at first, took some balls. Still my least favorite level, but I like that they had the guts to change the game mechanics like that. However, beyond that, I loved how they weren't afraid to do some other pretty crazy things as well. There's a part in the game when, I believe, Sam sneaks into Third Echelon and he finally gets to the primary place he's trying to get to, some office, and he ends up finding out something (I forget all the specifics) involving a friend I believe he was forced to kill as well as some information regarding his daughter, and the knowledge of this really made Sam lose his shit.

In response to Sam's anger to this monster revelation in the story, and in response to Sam's mood, I was fucking stunned to see that Ubisoft suddenly made a change in the established gameplay mechanics to suit Sam's increased anger and mental state. And they did this without telling you a god damn thing. They just did it, leaving it up to the player to wonder "What the fuck is going on here?" They hadn't done anything this drastic to this mechanic once the entire game, and they never did it again for any part of the game after this level. It was just a one time thing, but I found it really hilarious and somewhat badass that they would even consider doing it at the end of this level, much less doing it for any reason at all. Anyway, in response to Sam's anger, and with shit hitting the fan inside Third Echelon, and with more enemies being sent at the player than at any other time that I think I've witnessed in a splinter cell title, Ubisoft suddenly ditches the beginning of the game rule where you must perform a hand to hand takedown of some kind in order to activate mark and execute. That in itself probably wouldn't have surprised me so much, but it wasn't the only mechanic they ditched. They also ditched the rule where you must mark targets yourself. So, Sam had become the ultimate badass in the most hilariously unexpected of ways, where this guy was almost in a trance popping literally every enemy with a precision headshot while running out of, if I remember correctly, a completely exploding and burning third echelon HQ building. There was almost no end to them, but the fashion in which sam was tearing shit up was amazing to see. I thought it was cool that they would do this kind of thing, and it kind of reminded me of the time when Kojima (although Kojima's was even more brilliant and well timed) forced people in MGS1 to plug out their controller and plug it into the other port in order to make it impossible for psycho Mantis to read Snake's thoughts. Again, this wasn't nearly as cool as Kojima doing that in MGS1, but it gave me that same "let's do something batshit insane this level" vibe. The game as a whole won me over, but the fact that I also thought it was one of the most interesting or personal Splinter Cell stories I had ever played helped also.

Like, you actually gave a shit when Sam's daughter was alive, and the anticipation for the meet up was incredible and totally delivered. This game was like a stealth based Bourne Movie combined with the first Taken and a little hint of kill bill thrown in lol. I was surprised at how much mileage Ubi was able to get out of the way they designed this particular game. I think I said back when I first beat it as well, that I think they're going to find it hard as hell to top Conviction. We'll see if this game manages to do so. It's a very different kind of splinter cell, but it was a strong game, start to finish.

Hey Optimus, you should take cues from today's developers. Make your replies more accessible. ;)

They already did several years ago with Chaos Theory and the SC-games before that.

The story have never been a strong point in the SC-games, the meat has been in the gameplay which got butchered in Conviction.

Oh, no, I know Chaos Theory is better. I just meant topping Conviction with their next splinter cell title. I don't think it will be easy for them to do.

Yea, I know the stories have never been Splinter Cell's strong point, but it was refreshing that it was much better in Conviction.