Why can't a stealth game just be a stealth game? Why does it also need to cater to the n00bs who dont have the patience for the genre? If someone wants high octane action and shooting, there are games out there for you, dont turn splinter cell into it to try an get a slice of that market. It's like the resident evil franchise and what it's become. Was it really so bad JUST being a survival horror game? Did it really need to turn into a third person, now cover based shooter? Every game seems to be turning into a jack of all trades, getting features and mechanics shoehorned in, in an attempt to please EVEYONE. But you know what they say about jack of all trades...what once was an amazing stealth game, is now a mediocre action game, AND a mediocre stealth game...good game ubisoft, GG.

While I didn't care about Splinter Cell 1-4 storylines (I don't care about political fiction in general), I liked the setting and was really fond of it - I (Sam Fisher) wasn't a soldier, but an infiltration agent whose role wasn't to fight wars but to prevent them. Retrieving political, scientific and commercial information was Fisher's goal and I liked to imagine that the less traces Sam left behind, the better for preventing international crises since the foreign country (or corporation or terrorist organization) didn't even learn they were being infiltrated. Sometimes they were other objectives obviously, like stopping bombs, assassinating dangerous individuals etc. but still the goal was to remain invisible as much as possible.

Put Sam on a battlefield, and it's simply not Splinter Cell for me anymore.

That's the beauty of Conviction. It's absolutely optional, but it's much more challenging to do things the old school splinter cell way, and that's what makes it so much more satisfying, I think. I've gone through the whole game doing everything in a stealth like fashion. Of course there are situations, especially with the way the story was in Conviction, where you were forced into action, but that isn't exactly a bad thing, especially with the last known position mechanic. There are three types of stealth gameplay in Conviction.

Stealth before your presence is known.
Stealth after your presence is known.
Stealth after you are physically spotted by the enemy.

There are vastly different ways to play all three stealth situations. Ubisoft, believe it or not, actually expanded on old school splinter cell stealth, but masked it to appear as if they had simplified it. They really, however. They may have cut down on the variety of gadgets, but the core idea of stealth was given a real upgrade. I also thought the interrogations were badass. The presentation and the displaying of objectives or things like flashbacks and other things on the game environment was pretty damn cool, too.

I don't want to detract away from doom's thread, though, so I'll await new info on blacklist to avoid too much more conviction talk.


Well, don't forget, Szaromir, just because he's on a battlefield doesn't mean he's not sneaking around that compound in a stealth like fashsion.I greatly disagree that Conviction doesn't require patience, because it does. You can play it slow with all stealth if you want. You don't have to play fast and kill people left and right. I've gone through major sections of the game using all stealth. It's more challenging to do, but that's good.

Convivtion had some stealth obviously but it was vastly stripped. No carrying around bodies, no whistling, fewer gadgets etc. They can add all the shooting mechanics they want (after all you could shoot your way through in Splinter Cell 3 or 4) as long as they don't take away from stealth which they did in Conviction.

just because it's a similar looking location as that iraq level in conviction, doesn't mean the gameplay will be the same. That was a real deviation from the normal formula, but it worked in the context of the story, and it became very easy for me after I got adjusted to the non-stealth. The fact that he's climbing anything is already a sign that this will be about stealth, this level.

I think we call all agree the footage was shit?

Hell no, it wasn't. It looked amazing. What people aren't understand is you don't have to play that way. He just chose to go in gungho like that. You can play it slow and more stealth like. I'm impressed, and the kinect integration looks awesome.

Lol...i really don't know what to say...

Well, you aren't really being fair minded here at all. You think just because he chose to play that way, that this is the only way to play that level? Even you can't believe that. I've played Conviction, and I'm sure you have as well. You do not have to kill all those people like that if you don't want to. Didn't you see the plenty of unused locations throughout the environment from which the player could have tackled the entire situation?

agreed, fuck this game

Oh well, if people want to get mad over just one level, much less one level that obviously doesn't even need to be played in such a fast paced way, then by all means. Oh well, i look forward to it because conviction was awesome.

sorry, but that "game" looked fucking shit

Splintercell for the COD crowd.

One level does not make a game :P I'm positive that level is just one tiny example of missions Sam will be undertaking.

Spies vs. Mercs is back at least.People are always quick to judge. Especially if your name's KORNdog.

Yea, I think just because some people can play doing that kind of stuff doesn't mean everybody has to play that way.

To me, conviction created the first ever true stealth sandbox in a splinter cell game, and this game will obviously take that to whole other levels. This game isn't just about memorizing levels like the previous splinters were, or at least like the ones before conviction were.

spies vs mercs? cant wait to see how they fuck that up

i bet both sides get thermal vision...

I played only a small bit of Conviction co-op, but it seemed pretty damn awesome.

Either way, I'm mostly excited about the SP campaign. I personally thought that Conviction was the best of them all. I do believe they're going to have a very tough time topping Conviction overall, because of the fact Conviction was far more personal to Sam's character, but I suppose we'll have to see.

I'm with Optimusv2 on this one, an I've been playing since the first game...

[quote=Optimusv2]I played only a small bit of Conviction co-op, but it seemed pretty damn awesome.
quote]
dude the fact i mentioned spies vs mercs and you bring up that..

did you ever play any of the original games? Spies vs mercs was out-fucking-standing

Conviction was just..meh, hell it did not even have spies vs mercs...

it had spies vs spies, and that was some of the biggest lols i have had..

Nope. Not even a little.

And I don't blame them. The early games were alright for their time, but that was hardly true, dynamic stealth gameplay. It just so happened to be much superior stealth to things like Metal Gear Solid,

A lot of people can't see past the quicker movements of Conviction and the mark and execute feature and realize that, even with the more Guerilla methods that Sam was forced to use in Conviction, it still felt like a more proper, more true sandbox stealth gameplay experience, where situations truly were a lot more dynamic than any splinter cell game before it. So some options were taken out and removed from the game, but let's not act as if the story of Conviction didn't at least try and justify why that was, as it most certainly did.

Splinter Cell Conviction was quietly, for all the hate it gets, the closest game in the franchise to real stealth gameplay and not just, in most instances, blatant memorization of the level. Mark and execute is not something you are forced to abuse in order to make it through the game. I know because I've done it. Even being choosey with mark and execute can play fantastically into a stealthy advancement through a level. There are more layers of stealth in conviction than all splinter cell games before.

Stealth when your presence isn't known.
Stealth once your presence is known.
Stealth once you are actually spotted by the enemy.

The color draining from the game when you were within the shadows was fantastic, the cover system, and the way sam moved around his environment is one of the best cover systems in all of gaming, if not the best. The last known position feature was fantastic. Some even dissed the portable emp. There is a cost that comes with that, because you put enemies on higher alert, and Conviction is meant to be played at the hardest possible level. It was a fantastic game, and I expect this one to be even better. I don't know if the story will be better, because Conviction will be pretty tough to top, but the gameplay is likely to become even crazier.

pah, hardly. it was a superior stealth game...PERIOD. superior to MGS? yes. superior to conviction? HELL YES!.

oh, and chaos theory had those stages of stealth too.

i just wish they'd go ahead and call it jason bourne and get over it. cos it certainly isnt sam fisher anymore, and it definately isnt splinter cell. call it what it is, dont pretend it is something it isnt. i really hope it fails commercially. maybe it'll give ubi a clear message that we dont want a ghost recon:solo edition.

I am sorry, but ... well.. i just don't believe them, these bastards lie to us time and time again when making sequels.

The day i believe there PR shit is the same day i buy a fucking call of duty.

It didn't fail commercially, Conviction that is, because it was simply a fantastic game.

The funniest part about people's complaints regarding Conviction, is that a lot of it has been focused on the fact that he doesn't have his oldschool goggles and spy uniform on.

Tell me with a straight face (straight typing face :P) that Splinter Cell Conviction has no serious stealth gameplay in it. Please try and tell me that it's impossible to go through an entire level without having to mark and execute someone. Is it fun to just tear shit up? Yes, I don't deny it, it is. But the game is a fantastic stealth game, too. Does it deviate from oldschool Splinter Cell formula? In a lot of ways, yes, but the game is amazing. I say it again: The game is amazing. One of this generation's best.

Here's the real reason I think so many people are so mad and so angry about Conviction: It's actually harder to use the kind of cookie cutter stealth that gets you by in Chaos Theory. It's not impossible to do that kind of stuff, but it's surely harder. Enemies, I feel, are more intelligently placed in levels, I think their patterns, and how they choose to move about while surveying an environment, are actually tougher to predict. You don't get away with the same kind of silliness that people use to get away with in previous splinter cell games, making the ai look like complete idiots a lot of times, and so because that's the case, rather than evolve and take on the more difficult challenge, they shrink from that challenge, and just condemn the game as a whole. I think their response to anything that seems out of sorts is more aggressive and startling, requiring you to be much quicker on your feet. Ubisoft cutting down on options available in previous games, is not automatically a dumbing down of the game. Sometimes you cut down on the quantity of options because you want to make the core of what's left of the game even stronger, and then you build upon that, re-adding options that some maybe want back with followups like Blacklist.

This notion, though, that Conviction is all fast, no slow methodical movements, no patience, it's all untrue.

For example, the part in Conviction where after you, I think, disable some satellite comm link, after grim helps you escape, and they send in a ton of guards to search you out, and there's that big tented area to your right. That part, and many parts that come after are fantastic. Go through that area without killing anyone, without marking and executing anyone, thrilling stuff. There are other levels, like the Third Echelon level, and a number of other cool areas. Are there situations where you have to take some fools out? Sure, but it isn't like we don't also have stealth sections that more than make-up for it. I understand people are pissed about the Iraq level, even I was initially getting stomped there, but I got use to it, and I now run through that area like it's a joke.

I mean, people can have their own opinions, I suppose, but Conviction is one of the best games of this generation, easily. Rarely do you see a reboot of a franchise that knocks it out of the park the way that one did. And, what's worse, nobody seems to acknowledge that the story of Conviction actually justifies many of the changes or modifications to gameplay. Mark my words, Blacklist will be more like the kind of splinter cell that people say they want, but none of them will care to explore and see how good it is, because mark and execute and the ability to wreck enemies in mass are still in place.

Also, you know they're gonna wanna show the kind of thing that would help their game sell at E3, and that overthetop action, with Sam murdering people left and right is gonna help with that lol. Let's be honest, a lot of the finer, more nuanced aspects of gaming simply doesn't get the appreciation it deserves from the vast majority of gamers. Yea, we know the hardcores usually pick up whatever they're interested in, but if you have to sometimes make your game look a whole lot less slow and methodical, or more action packed to appeal to the rest of the gamers out there to help your game sell, then that's just what these developers have to do.

Show the more high octane stuff for the wannabe action junkies out there, and then fill the game with the kind of quality content, options and depth to keep credibility with the hardcores. Considering that Sam wasn't even apart of Third Echelon in conviction, and it still had some deceptively deep stealth gameplay, I expect it to only be tenfold in this game now that he is working with Third Echelon. However, it seems now that the story is going back to the more cliche stuff that defined the earlier games. Conviction had by far the best plot/story of any previous Splinter Cell, and I won't be surprised if this game is a major stepdown in that regard, but as long as the gameplay is exciting, and the story is not so bad that it's insulting.

But, come on, people have to be smarter than this. Do you honestly believe you are forced to play that demo level, or most any demo the same exact way that Ubi did at the MS Press Conf? Just use your heads for a moment, please :)

You don't have to move that fast, you don't have to take the same routes, you don't even have to kill so many people. By the very nature of the interrogation mechanic, someone HAS to be killed, but not every level ends up with an interrogation at the end. Michael Ironside isn't voicing sam. That blows :(